One of the advertised niceties is running the VM in a simulator. I've been wondering for a while how to try it. I found this ancient tutorial... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J1yjWtuwJU which saves current image as 'source.image' then in original image does... (InterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test as advised at 2:15, but I get "Error: basicNew: failed" at the line methodCache := Array new: MethodCacheSize. where MethodCacheSize is nil.
Is this still the correct way to invoke the simulator?
I tried also "(StackInterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test" with same result.
If I use the example at the bottom of StackInterpreterSimulator class comment I get "Error: incomaptible image format"
Also btw, the class comment of SimulatorMorph references Simulator>>openAsMorph which doesn't exist. Should this be StackInterpreterSimulator?
I'm running on Linux-x86 platform.
cheers -ben
I’m happy to see that people are still watching that video of mine. I made it work, sort of, by using very old images. I think it’s 2.2 or something.
To my knowledge the simulator is broken and unusable. Like Alien FFI, it’s something you hear about, assume is a real thing, and then eventually find out it is not. In the hands of experts? Yes. But neither the simulator nor Alien is a mass market product.
The simulator does not work with the Interpreter vm with any image. The simulator works for Cog if you are an expert. I’d be utterly fascinate if somebody could prove me wrong on this. I’d probably make a new video.
Let me put it this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-gJMs6DwuE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-gJMs6DwuE
Chris
On Apr 7, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Ben Coman btc@openinworld.com wrote:
One of the advertised niceties is running the VM in a simulator. I've been wondering for a while how to try it. I found this ancient tutorial... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J1yjWtuwJU which saves current image as 'source.image' then in original image does... (InterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test as advised at 2:15, but I get "Error: basicNew: failed" at the line methodCache := Array new: MethodCacheSize. where MethodCacheSize is nil.
Is this still the correct way to invoke the simulator?
I tried also "(StackInterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test" with same result.
If I use the example at the bottom of StackInterpreterSimulator class comment I get "Error: incomaptible image format"
Also btw, the class comment of SimulatorMorph references Simulator>>openAsMorph which doesn't exist. Should this be StackInterpreterSimulator?
I'm running on Linux-x86 platform.
cheers -ben
Hi Chris,
how about we meet v soon and u show you how straight forward it is, and you make a new video. I feel frustrated (& worse; the phrase FUD comes to mind) to read messages like Ben's and your's, when the http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/build-image/ page documents how to build a VMMaker image via a script, and when the built image includes a workspace with doits for launching the simulator in many configurations.
:-(
_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
On Apr 7, 2016, at 6:02 AM, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote:
I’m happy to see that people are still watching that video of mine. I made it work, sort of, by using very old images. I think it’s 2.2 or something.
To my knowledge the simulator is broken and unusable. Like Alien FFI, it’s something you hear about, assume is a real thing, and then eventually find out it is not. In the hands of experts? Yes. But neither the simulator nor Alien is a mass market product.
The simulator does not work with the Interpreter vm with any image. The simulator works for Cog if you are an expert. I’d be utterly fascinate if somebody could prove me wrong on this. I’d probably make a new video.
Let me put it this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-gJMs6DwuE
Chris
On Apr 7, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Ben Coman btc@openinworld.com wrote:
One of the advertised niceties is running the VM in a simulator. I've been wondering for a while how to try it. I found this ancient tutorial... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J1yjWtuwJU which saves current image as 'source.image' then in original image does... (InterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test as advised at 2:15, but I get "Error: basicNew: failed" at the line methodCache := Array new: MethodCacheSize. where MethodCacheSize is nil.
Is this still the correct way to invoke the simulator?
I tried also "(StackInterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test" with same result.
If I use the example at the bottom of StackInterpreterSimulator class comment I get "Error: incomaptible image format"
Also btw, the class comment of SimulatorMorph references Simulator>>openAsMorph which doesn't exist. Should this be StackInterpreterSimulator?
I'm running on Linux-x86 platform.
cheers -ben
Nothing will make me happier. This time next week this problem will be solved.
Chris
On Apr 7, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Chris,
how about we meet v soon and u show you how straight forward it is, and you make a new video. I feel frustrated (& worse; the phrase FUD comes to mind) to read messages like Ben's and your's, when the http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/build-image/ <http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/build-image/> page documents how to build a VMMaker image via a script, and when the built image includes a workspace with doits for launching the simulator in many configurations.:-(
_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
On Apr 7, 2016, at 6:02 AM, Chris Cunnington <brasspen@gmail.com mailto:brasspen@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m happy to see that people are still watching that video of mine. I made it work, sort of, by using very old images. I think it’s 2.2 or something.
To my knowledge the simulator is broken and unusable. Like Alien FFI, it’s something you hear about, assume is a real thing, and then eventually find out it is not. In the hands of experts? Yes. But neither the simulator nor Alien is a mass market product.
The simulator does not work with the Interpreter vm with any image. The simulator works for Cog if you are an expert. I’d be utterly fascinate if somebody could prove me wrong on this. I’d probably make a new video.
Let me put it this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-gJMs6DwuE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-gJMs6DwuE
Chris
On Apr 7, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com mailto:btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
One of the advertised niceties is running the VM in a simulator. I've been wondering for a while how to try it. I found this ancient tutorial... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J1yjWtuwJU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J1yjWtuwJU which saves current image as 'source.image' then in original image does... (InterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test as advised at 2:15, but I get "Error: basicNew: failed" at the line methodCache := Array new: MethodCacheSize. where MethodCacheSize is nil.
Is this still the correct way to invoke the simulator?
I tried also "(StackInterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test" with same result.
If I use the example at the bottom of StackInterpreterSimulator class comment I get "Error: incomaptible image format"
Also btw, the class comment of SimulatorMorph references Simulator>>openAsMorph which doesn't exist. Should this be StackInterpreterSimulator?
I'm running on Linux-x86 platform.
cheers -ben
Just a discover-ability issue. I googled "simulator" and that is what turned up.
A new video would be real nice, and especially great if it also included a sample of actual debugging the simulated VM. Maybe this would be something cool to drop on ycombinator/reddit, together with a link to Eliot & Clement's partial read barrier paper ?
cheers -ben
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:38 PM, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote:
Nothing will make me happier. This time next week this problem will be solved.
Chris
On Apr 7, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Chris,
how about we meet v soon and u show you how straight forward it is, and you make a new video. I feel frustrated (& worse; the phrase FUD comes to mind) to read messages like Ben's and your's, when the http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/build-image/ page documents how to build a VMMaker image via a script, and when the built image includes a workspace with doits for launching the simulator in many configurations.:-(
_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
On Apr 7, 2016, at 6:02 AM, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote:
I’m happy to see that people are still watching that video of mine. I made it work, sort of, by using very old images. I think it’s 2.2 or something.
To my knowledge the simulator is broken and unusable. Like Alien FFI, it’s something you hear about, assume is a real thing, and then eventually find out it is not. In the hands of experts? Yes. But neither the simulator nor Alien is a mass market product.
The simulator does not work with the Interpreter vm with any image. The simulator works for Cog if you are an expert. I’d be utterly fascinate if somebody could prove me wrong on this. I’d probably make a new video.
Let me put it this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-gJMs6DwuE
Chris
On Apr 7, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Ben Coman btc@openinworld.com wrote:
One of the advertised niceties is running the VM in a simulator. I've been wondering for a while how to try it. I found this ancient tutorial... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J1yjWtuwJU which saves current image as 'source.image' then in original image does... (InterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test as advised at 2:15, but I get "Error: basicNew: failed" at the line methodCache := Array new: MethodCacheSize. where MethodCacheSize is nil.
Is this still the correct way to invoke the simulator?
I tried also "(StackInterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test" with same result.
If I use the example at the bottom of StackInterpreterSimulator class comment I get "Error: incomaptible image format"
Also btw, the class comment of SimulatorMorph references Simulator>>openAsMorph which doesn't exist. Should this be StackInterpreterSimulator?
I'm running on Linux-x86 platform.
cheers -ben
Smalltalk has several attractions to people, by domain, I mean. I always think people have to pick either between a GUI app or a web app to explore Smalltalk. The truth is the vm is a domain that also attracts people. This came to me as a surprise, but I’m probably in the minority.
For example, there is a professor at UCSF who has a project called ANTLR [1]. I had a talk with him on Twitter yesterday and he is brining several grad students to OopluCon 2016 this Sunday. They want to learn about vm construction, so the Cog presentation is a powerful draw to them.
I imagine Eliot will be swarmed with people on Sunday. I’m not leaving San Francisco until Tuesday, so perhaps I can go to anywhere he directs on Monday to spend half an hour talking about the simulator. I’ll do some preparatory exploring in anticipation, refreshing my memory on the subject, reading the document he mentioned, etc. Maybe he won’t be swarmed and we can just look at it at The Box SF, which would be the easiest thing, I imagine.
After that, I’ll make what I learn about using the simulator the first video on http://www.ooplu.com, which will be the first of what will ultimately be hundreds. I imagine that the attraction of that video, that is to say, Eliot’s work, will be as riveting to the wider world, as to the internal Smalltalk community, to the ANTLR team and many others.
Chris
[1] https://github.com/parrt/cs652/blob/master/projects/smalltalk.md https://github.com/parrt/cs652/blob/master/projects/smalltalk.md
On Apr 7, 2016, at 11:12 AM, Ben Coman btc@openinworld.com wrote:
Just a discover-ability issue. I googled "simulator" and that is what turned up.
A new video would be real nice, and especially great if it also included a sample of actual debugging the simulated VM. Maybe this would be something cool to drop on ycombinator/reddit, together with a link to Eliot & Clement's partial read barrier paper ?
cheers -ben
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:38 PM, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote:
Nothing will make me happier. This time next week this problem will be solved.
Chris
On Apr 7, 2016, at 9:35 AM, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Chris,
how about we meet v soon and u show you how straight forward it is, and you make a new video. I feel frustrated (& worse; the phrase FUD comes to mind) to read messages like Ben's and your's, when the http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/build-image/ page documents how to build a VMMaker image via a script, and when the built image includes a workspace with doits for launching the simulator in many configurations.
:-(
_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
On Apr 7, 2016, at 6:02 AM, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote:
I’m happy to see that people are still watching that video of mine. I made it work, sort of, by using very old images. I think it’s 2.2 or something.
To my knowledge the simulator is broken and unusable. Like Alien FFI, it’s something you hear about, assume is a real thing, and then eventually find out it is not. In the hands of experts? Yes. But neither the simulator nor Alien is a mass market product.
The simulator does not work with the Interpreter vm with any image. The simulator works for Cog if you are an expert. I’d be utterly fascinate if somebody could prove me wrong on this. I’d probably make a new video.
Let me put it this way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-gJMs6DwuE
Chris
On Apr 7, 2016, at 8:53 AM, Ben Coman btc@openinworld.com wrote:
One of the advertised niceties is running the VM in a simulator. I've been wondering for a while how to try it. I found this ancient tutorial... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J1yjWtuwJU which saves current image as 'source.image' then in original image does... (InterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test as advised at 2:15, but I get "Error: basicNew: failed" at the line methodCache := Array new: MethodCacheSize. where MethodCacheSize is nil.
Is this still the correct way to invoke the simulator?
I tried also "(StackInterpreterSimulatorLSB new openOn: 'source.image') test" with same result.
If I use the example at the bottom of StackInterpreterSimulator class comment I get "Error: incomaptible image format"
Also btw, the class comment of SimulatorMorph references Simulator>>openAsMorph which doesn't exist. Should this be StackInterpreterSimulator?
I'm running on Linux-x86 platform.
cheers -ben
On 07-04-2016, at 8:33 AM, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote: For example, there is a professor at UCSF who has a project called ANTLR [1].
A quick look leaves me a tad puzzled. For example I can’t quite work out what they mean by " • subclasses can see the fields of their parent classes; in ST-80 these are private” since I’m reasonably sure my objects can see the instance variables defined in their parent classes. And no file format? Does chunk file format per changes/sources/fileouts not count? And they’re implementing it in java. Gulp.
Most curious.
After that, I’ll make what I learn about using the simulator the first video on http://www.ooplu.com, which will be the first of what will ultimately be hundreds.
If you can make hundreds of good instructional videos we’ll all be very, very, happy. We were talking about this in the board meeting just yesterday.
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim All the simple programs have been written, and all the good names taken.
On Apr 7, 2016, at 1:40 PM, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org wrote:
On 07-04-2016, at 8:33 AM, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote: For example, there is a professor at UCSF who has a project called ANTLR [1].
A quick look leaves me a tad puzzled. For example I can’t quite work out what they mean by " • subclasses can see the fields of their parent classes; in ST-80 these are private” since I’m reasonably sure my objects can see the instance variables defined in their parent classes. And no file format? Does chunk file format per changes/sources/fileouts not count? And they’re implementing it in java. Gulp.
Most curious.
If they didn’t have questions, I don’t suppose they’d come. They seem nice.
After that, I’ll make what I learn about using the simulator the first video on http://www.ooplu.com, which will be the first of what will ultimately be hundreds.
If you can make hundreds of good instructional videos we’ll all be very, very, happy. We were talking about this in the board meeting just yesterday.
Making videos is easy. Making a wiki application using Xtreams PEG grammars (i.e. PEGParser class >> grammarWiki) was hard. I had to figure out how to write an actor subclass to PEGActor. That, for me, was extremely difficult. http://www.ooplu.co http://www.ooplu.co/m as a web page doesn’t look like much, but it is now a bootstrapped Ajax wiki on top of Altitude called PEGWiki. Extending PEGWiki’s wiki grammar to include videos from Wistia [1] and making the videos is trivial compared to me trying to understand Michael and Martin’s agglomerations of blocks within blocks with stack arguments constructed by pragmas as single values in a dictionary. Oh my. Although I can use it, I still don’t really get it.
I’ll show it at my presentation.
Chris
[1] http://www.wistia.com http://www.wistia.com/
tim
tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim All the simple programs have been written, and all the good names taken.
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 11:33 PM, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote:
After that, I’ll make what I learn about using the simulator the first video on http://www.ooplu.com, which will be the first of what will ultimately be hundreds. I imagine that the attraction of that video, that is to say, Eliot’s work, will be as riveting to the wider world, as to the internal Smalltalk community, to the ANTLR team and many others.
hi Chris,
Just curious if there is any progress with a Simulator tutorial video? I'm keen to try it out.
cheers -ben
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