On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com wrote:
On 24 November 2015 at 21:09, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote:
On 11/21/15, Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:40 PM, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org wrote:
I suggest we should Universes.
+1. +1. +1 and, +1.
..
I was under the impression that Universes _was removed_, like, back in 4.4 or the beginning of the 4.5 cycle, when I was up to my eyeballs in hairy dependencies... Certainly the build processes think so - https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak-ci/blob/master/package-load-scrip... is the _load script_ for Universes (implying its _unloaded by default_ state).
frank
I think this has been discussed before the release of 4.6 and people agreed but at that time it was to late to do it.
--Hannes
Hi Frank
Indeed I do not see a Universe browser in the app menu of Squeak 5.0.
However there seem to be some classes left in the system, see screen shot.
So there was removal but it seems it was not done completely.
Universes was removed from menus because it was not functional.
To remove Universes from Trunk one has to take into account the update number. I think the update number is the sum of all package versions ?
I'm not sure how one does this.
Best, Karl
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote:
On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com wrote:
On 24 November 2015 at 21:09, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote:
On 11/21/15, Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:40 PM, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org
wrote:
I suggest we should Universes.
+1. +1. +1 and, +1.
..
I was under the impression that Universes _was removed_, like, back in 4.4 or the beginning of the 4.5 cycle, when I was up to my eyeballs in hairy dependencies... Certainly the build processes think so -
https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak-ci/blob/master/package-load-scrip...
is the _load script_ for Universes (implying its _unloaded by default_ state).
frank
I think this has been discussed before the release of 4.6 and people agreed but at that time it was to late to do it.
--Hannes
Hi Frank
Indeed I do not see a Universe browser in the app menu of Squeak 5.0.
However there seem to be some classes left in the system, see screen shot.
So there was removal but it seems it was not done completely.
Thanks, Karl, for this piece of information. I have updated Package Universes http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3785 accordingly.
--HH
On 11/25/15, karl ramberg karlramberg@gmail.com wrote:
Universes was removed from menus because it was not functional.
To remove Universes from Trunk one has to take into account the update number. I think the update number is the sum of all package versions ?
I'm not sure how one does this.
Best, Karl
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote:
On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com wrote:
On 24 November 2015 at 21:09, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote:
On 11/21/15, Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:40 PM, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org
wrote:
I suggest we should Universes.
+1. +1. +1 and, +1.
..
I was under the impression that Universes _was removed_, like, back in 4.4 or the beginning of the 4.5 cycle, when I was up to my eyeballs in hairy dependencies... Certainly the build processes think so -
https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak-ci/blob/master/package-load-scrip...
is the _load script_ for Universes (implying its _unloaded by default_ state).
frank
I think this has been discussed before the release of 4.6 and people agreed but at that time it was to late to do it.
--Hannes
Hi Frank
Indeed I do not see a Universe browser in the app menu of Squeak 5.0.
However there seem to be some classes left in the system, see screen shot.
So there was removal but it seems it was not done completely.
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
On Wed, 25 Nov 2015, karl ramberg wrote:
Universes was removed from menus because it was not functional.
To remove Universes from Trunk one has to take into account the update number. I think the update number is the sum of all package versions ?
I'm not sure how one does this.
Best, Karl
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote: On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com wrote: > On 24 November 2015 at 21:09, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote: >> On 11/21/15, Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:40 PM, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org wrote:
>>>> I suggest we should Universes. >>> +1. +1. +1 and, +1. .. > > I was under the impression that Universes _was removed_, like, back in > 4.4 or the beginning of the 4.5 cycle, when I was up to my eyeballs in > hairy dependencies... Certainly the build processes think so - > https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak-ci/blob/master/package-load-scripts/Universes.st > is the _load script_ for Universes (implying its _unloaded by default_ > state). > > frank > >> I think this has been discussed before the release of 4.6 and people >> agreed but at that time it was to late to do it. >> >> --Hannes >> > > Hi Frank Indeed I do not see a Universe browser in the app menu of Squeak 5.0. However there seem to be some classes left in the system, see screen shot. So there was removal but it seems it was not done completely.
Any code changing the image as loading a package from trunk should end in a numbered change set.
This is how Cuis works and how Squeak should work.
And please , get rid of Squeak-Version also. As we have automatic procedures, we should have a way of made reliable change sets and put this change sets in GitHub
On 11/25/15, 10:50 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" leves@elte.hu wrote:
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
On 25 November 2015 at 13:59, Edgar J. De Cleene edgardec2005@gmail.com wrote:
Any code changing the image as loading a package from trunk should end in a numbered change set.
This is how Cuis works and how Squeak should work.
And please , get rid of Squeak-Version also. As we have automatic procedures, we should have a way of made reliable change sets and put this change sets in GitHub
We can't, without a fair amount of work. Your squeak "version" is the sum of versions of all the base packages. When we remove packages from the base system, we must bump Squeak-Version's version by the removed package's version number, so that the aggregate version number doesn't decrease.
It's a bit crazy (because if you and I both have packages Foo and Bar, but my Foo is one version ahead of yours, and my Bar one version behind, the aggregate version number is the same), but it's what's there. And fixing it won't be easy - to do it reliably you'd have to record the versions of the individual packages - you'd have a _version vector_.
frank
On 11/25/15, 10:50 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" leves@elte.hu wrote:
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
Frank,
what would you propose as the solution then?
Just delete all the classes in the Universes package and remove the references to it and keep the empty package?
--Hannes
On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com wrote:
On 25 November 2015 at 13:59, Edgar J. De Cleene edgardec2005@gmail.com wrote:
Any code changing the image as loading a package from trunk should end in a numbered change set.
This is how Cuis works and how Squeak should work.
And please , get rid of Squeak-Version also. As we have automatic procedures, we should have a way of made reliable change sets and put this change sets in GitHub
We can't, without a fair amount of work. Your squeak "version" is the sum of versions of all the base packages. When we remove packages from the base system, we must bump Squeak-Version's version by the removed package's version number, so that the aggregate version number doesn't decrease.
It's a bit crazy (because if you and I both have packages Foo and Bar, but my Foo is one version ahead of yours, and my Bar one version behind, the aggregate version number is the same), but it's what's there. And fixing it won't be easy - to do it reliably you'd have to record the versions of the individual packages - you'd have a _version vector_.
frank
On 11/25/15, 10:50 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" leves@elte.hu wrote:
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
On Wed, 25 Nov 2015, Frank Shearar wrote:
On 25 November 2015 at 13:59, Edgar J. De Cleene edgardec2005@gmail.com wrote:
Any code changing the image as loading a package from trunk should end in a numbered change set.
This is how Cuis works and how Squeak should work.
And please , get rid of Squeak-Version also. As we have automatic procedures, we should have a way of made reliable change sets and put this change sets in GitHub
We can't, without a fair amount of work. Your squeak "version" is the sum of versions of all the base packages. When we remove packages from the base system, we must bump Squeak-Version's version by the removed package's version number, so that the aggregate version number doesn't decrease.
It's a bit crazy (because if you and I both have packages Foo and Bar, but my Foo is one version ahead of yours, and my Bar one version behind, the aggregate version number is the same), but it's what's there. And fixing it won't be easy - to do it reliably you'd have to record the versions of the individual packages - you'd have a _version vector_.
I don't think there's anything to fix here. The version number is only meaningful in a Trunk image, and it only has to be consistent after updates. So it does exactly what it has to do.
Levente
frank
On 11/25/15, 10:50 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" leves@elte.hu wrote:
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
On 25 November 2015 at 16:51, Levente Uzonyi leves@elte.hu wrote:
On Wed, 25 Nov 2015, Frank Shearar wrote:
On 25 November 2015 at 13:59, Edgar J. De Cleene edgardec2005@gmail.com wrote:
Any code changing the image as loading a package from trunk should end in a numbered change set.
This is how Cuis works and how Squeak should work.
And please , get rid of Squeak-Version also. As we have automatic procedures, we should have a way of made reliable change sets and put this change sets in GitHub
We can't, without a fair amount of work. Your squeak "version" is the sum of versions of all the base packages. When we remove packages from the base system, we must bump Squeak-Version's version by the removed package's version number, so that the aggregate version number doesn't decrease.
It's a bit crazy (because if you and I both have packages Foo and Bar, but my Foo is one version ahead of yours, and my Bar one version behind, the aggregate version number is the same), but it's what's there. And fixing it won't be easy - to do it reliably you'd have to record the versions of the individual packages - you'd have a _version vector_.
I don't think there's anything to fix here. The version number is only meaningful in a Trunk image, and it only has to be consistent after updates. So it does exactly what it has to do.
Yeah, maybe "fix" is a bit of hyperbole. "Fixing" the Squeak trunk version is like saying "the version of my operating system is Windows 10 + VS 2013.4 + Git 2.6.2 + ...". No one actually does that.
The thing called "Cuis" is versioned across the packages in the base system. That's pretty close to what we do, kinda. Maybe in fact "the Squeak trunk version" should only be calculated by the sum of packages in the MCM... but I suspect that's exactly what we _actually do_. So THEN, when we remove packages from the base system (as in, it's not part of the base system anymore), we have the number deficit that Squeak-Version fixes.
Er. That might be a long-winded "carry on, nothing to see here."
frank
Levente
frank
On 11/25/15, 10:50 AM, "Levente Uzonyi" leves@elte.hu wrote:
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
Hi,
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 2:50 PM, Levente Uzonyi leves@elte.hu wrote:
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
So one just changes the version number in the dialog box when one saves a new version ?
As far as unloading the Universes, where do one put the unloading script ?
And the unload script is like:
(MCPackage named: 'Universes') workingCopy unload
Best, Karl
Levente
On Wed, 25 Nov 2015, karl ramberg wrote:
Universes was removed from menus because it was not functional.
To remove Universes from Trunk one has to take into account the update number. I think the update number is the sum of all package versions ?
I'm not sure how one does this.
Best, Karl
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 1:39 PM, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote: On 11/25/15, Frank Shearar frank.shearar@gmail.com wrote: > On 24 November 2015 at 21:09, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote: >> On 11/21/15, Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2015 at 12:40 PM, tim Rowledge < tim@rowledge.org> wrote:
>>>> I suggest we should Universes. >>> +1. +1. +1 and, +1. .. > > I was under the impression that Universes _was removed_, like,back in > 4.4 or the beginning of the 4.5 cycle, when I was up to my eyeballs in > hairy dependencies... Certainly the build processes think so - > https://github.com/squeak-smalltalk/squeak-ci/blob/master/package-load-scrip... > is the _load script_ for Universes (implying its _unloaded by default_ > state). > > frank > >> I think this has been discussed before the release of 4.6 and people >> agreed but at that time it was to late to do it. >> >> --Hannes >> > >
Hi Frank Indeed I do not see a Universe browser in the app menu of Squeak5.0.
However there seem to be some classes left in the system, seescreen shot.
So there was removal but it seems it was not done completely.
This one
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Levente Uzonyi leves@elte.hu Date: Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Removing of Universe classes To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list < squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
Hi Chris,
but Squeak-Version is itself empty and the version info in ReleaseBuilder would appear to have obsoleted it. Shouldn't we also remove Squeak-Version?
_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Chris Cunningham cunningham.cb@gmail.com wrote:
This one
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Levente Uzonyi leves@elte.hu Date: Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Removing of Universe classes To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
The ReleaseBuilder does not deal with the build number. We do need that offset in Squeak-Version to compute our build number.
Best, Marcel Am 25.01.2018 15:57:31 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com: Hi Chris,
but Squeak-Version is itself empty and the version info in ReleaseBuilder would appear to have obsoleted it. Shouldn't we also remove Squeak-Version?
_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Chris Cunningham <cunningham.cb@gmail.com [mailto:cunningham.cb@gmail.com]> wrote:
This one
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Levente Uzonyi <leves@elte.hu [mailto:leves@elte.hu]> Date: Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Removing of Universe classes To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org]>
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
Hi Marcel,
On Jan 25, 2018, at 7:42 AM, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
The ReleaseBuilder does not deal with the build number. We do need that offset in Squeak-Version to compute our build number.
Then I suggest it contain a class called SqueakVersion whose class comment includes the gist of Levente's message and whose two method categories, class & instance side, are called 'read the class comment' ;-)
Best, Marcel
Am 25.01.2018 15:57:31 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
Hi Chris,
but Squeak-Version is itself empty and the version info in ReleaseBuilder would appear to have obsoleted it. Shouldn't we also remove Squeak-Version?_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Chris Cunningham cunningham.cb@gmail.com wrote:
This one
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Levente Uzonyi leves@elte.hu Date: Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Removing of Universe classes To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 08:11 Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Marcel,
On Jan 25, 2018, at 7:42 AM, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
The ReleaseBuilder does not deal with the build number. We do need that offset in Squeak-Version to compute our build number.
Then I suggest it contain a class called SqueakVersion whose class comment includes the gist of Levente's message and whose two method categories, class & instance side, are called 'read the class comment' ;-)
+++++++ 1
i think this comment idea is a good idea and i will use it in future if i ever get to because people not in the know would know then but who cares about them but how long would it take to put this Class in but if there was no head scratching or head banging would not people feel that something is missing ? and say TRA-DI-TION and the weight of all the previous nothing pray tell : no-leave the head scratching and banging in or i didn’t know you were going to chide me now i definitely will not do anything you said
but i definitely will do this if i ever get to
because people not in the know will probably be me in another day or two
according to me and that guy who made erLang who made some forlorn plea for just such a mercy on a future he who is destined to head banging by today me who doesn’t see any need to avoid it as he notes that other genius who made that one single comment in all his years of lines of stuff and it was “and now for the tricky part”
which leads me to i can’t make head or tail of this
TIME TO REWRITE THIS THE WHOLE THING the Whole thing has gone
un maintainable
in my day we rewrote the whole thing once a day
and you can’t just say well here you fix this
because you forgot that future me is not in the know
and un maintainable here we come when future me gets ahold of this one
maybe I’m just forgetful and it’s just me
i do not have a forum on my own stuff to remind me at least not one i have access to please please me the kgb or one that is more than half a bit no no no no no no no no no
no wait there were yes-es in the before time nothing but yes-es now there is only no and everything is spitted and shut down to go time to scrape down to hell down to the chinese bedrock of swiss cheese that tells just keep on scraping a gaping get a cheese cutter
rewrite the whole f thing because the whole f thing has gone to the kells and is spinning in infinity due tell coq
did you know that in SE Asia the bank robbers are in the banks and so nobody has a bank account and so nobody has a Visa card and so google is quitting man going to grab their crotch huh imagine that
;-)
Best, Marcel
Am 25.01.2018 15:57:31 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com: Hi Chris,
but Squeak-Version is itself empty and the version info inReleaseBuilder would appear to have obsoleted it. Shouldn't we also remove Squeak-Version?
_,,,^..^,,,_ (phone)
On Jan 24, 2018, at 12:58 PM, Chris Cunningham cunningham.cb@gmail.com wrote:
This one
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Levente Uzonyi leves@elte.hu Date: Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 5:50 AM Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Removing of Universe classes To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list < squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org>
This question comes up from time to time. There's an empty package named Squeak-Version in the image. When you unload a package, let's say Universes-mt.48, you add 49 (48 + 1) to the version number of Squeak-Version and save it as well to ensure that the global Squeak version number keeps increasing.
Levente
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Chris Cunningham -
Edgar J. De Cleene -
Eliot Miranda -
Frank Shearar -
H. Hirzel -
karl ramberg -
Kjell Godo -
Levente Uzonyi -
Marcel Taeumel