Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
[image: image.png] _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
1. Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container. 2. Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop. 3. Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app. 4. That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
Best, Marcel Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com: Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
[image.png]
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot
Hi Eliot, all
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:08, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
- Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container.
- Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop.
- Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app.
- That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
The keyword "AppTranslocation" hints that the bundle was started from the Download location or the DMG.
Please throw away the app or DMG, download again and MOVE the app somewhere else, and then start. This precludes translocation.
(this is unavoidable.)
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:13 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
Hi Eliot, all
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:08, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
- Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container.
- Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop.
- Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app.
- That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some
temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
The keyword "AppTranslocation" hints that the bundle was started from the Download location or the DMG.
1. I downloaded the all-in-one. 2. macos (12.4) unzipped the all-in-one bundle into a ~/Downloads/Squeak6 directory, containing the fat binary mac app bundle containing the other VMs and the Mac VM in ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/ 3. I moved this to my Squeak directory, giving me ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app et al 4. I copied the image and changes file into a ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0 directory as trunk6-64.image/changes 5. I dropped the image on the ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app bundle and got the translocation 6. I opened the app using the command line from ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0: open trunk6-64.image -a ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app --stdout=`tty` --stderr=`tty` and got the translocation 7. I ran the VM binary from the command line: ../Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak trunk6-64.image and got the warning about no sources in ../Squeak6
Please throw away the app or DMG, download again and MOVE the app somewhere else, and then start. This precludes translocation.
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation? Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when Ieither launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Hi Eliot --
I have never heard of this issue. Maybe try to put the new .sources file besides your .image file. I will investigate tomorrow.
I would assume that this workflow would also break using the 5.3 download from files.squeak.org/5.3?
Best, Marcel Am 05.07.2022 21:20:46 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:13 PM Tobias Pape <Das.Linux@gmx.de [mailto:Das.Linux@gmx.de]> wrote:
Hi Eliot, all
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:08, Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.de [mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de]> wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
- Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container.
- Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop.
- Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app.
- That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
The keyword "AppTranslocation" hints that the bundle was started from the Download location or the DMG.
1. I downloaded the all-in-one. 2. macos (12.4) unzipped the all-in-one bundle into a ~/Downloads/Squeak6 directory, containing the fat binary mac app bundle containing the other VMs and the Mac VM in ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/ [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/] 3. I moved this to my Squeak directory, giving me ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app%5D%C2%A0et al 4. I copied the image and changes file into a ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0 directory as trunk6-64.image/changes 5. I dropped the image on the ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app%5D%C2%A0bundle and got the translocation 6. I opened the app using the command line from ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0: open trunk6-64.image -a ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app] --stdout=`tty` --stderr=`tty` and got the translocation 7. I ran the VM binary from the command line: ../Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak] trunk6-64.image and got the warning about no sources in ../Squeak6
Please throw away the app or DMG, download again and MOVE the app somewhere else, and then start. This precludes translocation.
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation? Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com [mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com]>:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
--
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot
Hi Marcel,
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:23 PM Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I have never heard of this issue. Maybe try to put the new .sources file besides your .image file. I will investigate tomorrow.
I would assume that this workflow would also break using the 5.3 download from files.squeak.org/5.3?
Indeed it does :-(
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:20:46 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:13 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
Hi Eliot, all
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:08, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
- Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container.
- Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop.
- Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app.
- That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some
temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
The keyword "AppTranslocation" hints that the bundle was started from the Download location or the DMG.
- I downloaded the all-in-one.
- macos (12.4) unzipped the all-in-one bundle into a ~/Downloads/Squeak6
directory, containing the fat binary mac app bundle containing the other VMs and the Mac VM in ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/ 3. I moved this to my Squeak directory, giving me ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app et al 4. I copied the image and changes file into a ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0 directory as trunk6-64.image/changes 5. I dropped the image on the ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app bundle and got the translocation 6. I opened the app using the command line from ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0: open trunk6-64.image -a ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app --stdout=`tty` --stderr=`tty` and got the translocation 7. I ran the VM binary from the command line: ../Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak trunk6-64.image and got the warning about no sources in ../Squeak6
Please throw away the app or DMG, download again and MOVE the app somewhere else, and then start. This precludes translocation.
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation? Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com
:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when Ieither launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
On my ancient iMac running 10.15.7 I see the same issue as Eliot *if* I try to run the AIO *in the Downloads folder*. Move it to my usual Squeak folder and all is well.
What I did - download AIO fro msqueak.org unzip in Downloads open Downloads d-click on AIO - oops! copy AIO to ~/Squeak d-click on AIO - OK!
On 2022-07-05, at 12:23 PM, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I have never heard of this issue. Maybe try to put the new .sources file besides your .image file. I will investigate tomorrow.
I would assume that this workflow would also break using the 5.3 download from files.squeak.org/5.3?
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:20:46 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:13 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote: Hi Eliot, all
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:08, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
- Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container.
- Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop.
- Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app.
- That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
The keyword "AppTranslocation" hints that the bundle was started from the Download location or the DMG.
- I downloaded the all-in-one.
- macos (12.4) unzipped the all-in-one bundle into a ~/Downloads/Squeak6 directory, containing the fat binary mac app bundle containing the other VMs and the Mac VM in ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/
- I moved this to my Squeak directory, giving me ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app et al
- I copied the image and changes file into a ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0 directory as trunk6-64.image/changes
- I dropped the image on the ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app bundle and got the translocation
- I opened the app using the command line from ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0: open trunk6-64.image -a ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app --stdout=`tty` --stderr=`tty` and got the translocation
- I ran the VM binary from the command line: ../Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak trunk6-64.image and got the warning about no sources in ../Squeak6
Please throw away the app or DMG, download again and MOVE the app somewhere else, and then start. This precludes translocation.
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation? Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Strange OpCodes: IOP: Insult OPerator
Hi
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:20, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:13 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote: Hi Eliot, all
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:08, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
- Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container.
- Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop.
- Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app.
- That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
The keyword "AppTranslocation" hints that the bundle was started from the Download location or the DMG.
- I downloaded the all-in-one.
- macos (12.4) unzipped the all-in-one bundle into a ~/Downloads/Squeak6 directory, containing the fat binary mac app bundle containing the other VMs and the Mac VM in ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/
- I moved this to my Squeak directory, giving me ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app et al
- I copied the image and changes file into a ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0 directory as trunk6-64.image/changes
- I dropped the image on the ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app bundle and got the translocation
- I opened the app using the command line from ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0: open trunk6-64.image -a ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app --stdout=`tty` --stderr=`tty` and got the translocation
- I ran the VM binary from the command line: ../Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak trunk6-64.image and got the warning about no sources in ../Squeak6
Please throw away the app or DMG, download again and MOVE the app somewhere else, and then start. This precludes translocation.
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
In that case, I really wonder what's going on. Can you give me the output of
ls -le@ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak xattr -l Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
xattr -l $PATH_OF_THE_DOWNLOADED_THING
please?
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation?
Apple is scarce on any usable stuff lately…
Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
you should not, if you moved stuff, macOS should have disabled translocation -.-
Lapcatsoftware has old info: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/app-translocation.html
Here's someone avoiding translocation via some exploit, hence not recommendable: https://www.synack.com/blog/untranslocating-apps/
Forum says signing the dmg or bundle helps (https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/133743): "
Another solution is to sign the .dmg file too, that should avoid app translocation if I remember correctly.
Right. "
We probably have to be tighter in stuff, I just found a "howto": - https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701581#701581021 - https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701514#701514021 (for signing or so…)
:( yay more work.
Best regards -Tobias
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Hi Tobi,
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:40 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
Hi
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:20, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:13 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote: Hi Eliot, all
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:08, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de
wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
- Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container.
- Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop.
- Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app.
- That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some
temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
The keyword "AppTranslocation" hints that the bundle was started from
the Download location or the DMG.
- I downloaded the all-in-one.
- macos (12.4) unzipped the all-in-one bundle into a
~/Downloads/Squeak6 directory, containing the fat binary mac app bundle containing the other VMs and the Mac VM in ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/
- I moved this to my Squeak directory, giving me ~/Squeak/Squeak6/
Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app et al
- I copied the image and changes file into a ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0
directory as trunk6-64.image/changes
- I dropped the image on the ~/Squeak/Squeak6/
Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app bundle and got the translocation
- I opened the app using the command line from ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0: open trunk6-64.image -a ~/Squeak/Squeak6/
Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app --stdout=`tty` --stderr=`tty`
and got the translocation
- I ran the VM binary from the command line: ../Squeak6/
Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak trunk6-64.image
and got the warning about no sources in ../Squeak6Please throw away the app or DMG, download again and MOVE the app
somewhere else, and then start.
This precludes translocation.
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
In that case, I really wonder what's going on. Can you give me the output of
ls -le@ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak -rwxr-xr-x@ 1 eliot staff 4100688 Jul 4 16:30 Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine 57 Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app total 0 drwxr-xr-x@ 10 eliot staff 320 Jul 4 16:32 Contents com.apple.quarantine 57
xattr -l Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
xattr -l $PATH_OF_THE_DOWNLOADED_THING
xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6 com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Squeak$ xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
please?
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation?
Apple is scarce on any usable stuff lately…
Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
you should not, if you moved stuff, macOS should have disabled translocation -.-
Lapcatsoftware has old info: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/app-translocation.html
Here's someone avoiding translocation via some exploit, hence not recommendable: https://www.synack.com/blog/untranslocating-apps/
Forum says signing the dmg or bundle helps ( https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/133743): "
Another solution is to sign the .dmg file too, that should avoid app
translocation if I remember correctly. Right. "
This I can help with. We have to do this for Virtend. We sign both the app bundle and the DMG. I guess one can also sign a zip for the all-in-one (since one uploads a zip containing either the app bundle or the dmg).
We probably have to be tighter in stuff, I just found a "howto":
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701581#701581021
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701514#701514021 (for signing
or so…)
:( yay more work.
I have scripts etc. So LMK
Best regards -Tobias
thanks!
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com
:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when Ieither launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Hi Eliot
On 6. Jul 2022, at 00:24, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
judging from the path below, yes you moved it, but not _out of_ anything in ~/Downloads ...
In that case, I really wonder what's going on. Can you give me the output of
ls -le@ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak -rwxr-xr-x@ 1 eliot staff 4100688 Jul 4 16:30 Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine 57
This quarantine will trip of Translocation
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app total 0 drwxr-xr-x@ 10 eliot staff 320 Jul 4 16:32 Contents com.apple.quarantine 57
xattr -l Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
xattr -l $PATH_OF_THE_DOWNLOADED_THING
xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6 com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Squeak$ xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Same.
Can you please try again: * unzip * move the AIO somewhere _not_ below ~/Donwloads a
and check that xattr or ls -le@ on the binary do not contain the quarantine?
please?
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation?
Apple is scarce on any usable stuff lately…
Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
you should not, if you moved stuff, macOS should have disabled translocation -.-
Lapcatsoftware has old info: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/app-translocation.html
Here's someone avoiding translocation via some exploit, hence not recommendable: https://www.synack.com/blog/untranslocating-apps/
Forum says signing the dmg or bundle helps (https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/133743): "
Another solution is to sign the .dmg file too, that should avoid app translocation if I remember correctly.
Right. "
This I can help with. We have to do this for Virtend. We sign both the app bundle and the DMG. I guess one can also sign a zip for the all-in-one (since one uploads a zip containing either the app bundle or the dmg).
Cool, maybe the signing helps. But let's first make sure the translocation does not happen when the fresh bundle is moved out of the "contaminated" location.
Best regards -Tobias
We probably have to be tighter in stuff, I just found a "howto":
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701581#701581021
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701514#701514021 (for signing or so…)
:( yay more work.
I have scripts etc. So LMK
Best regards -Tobias
thanks!
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:08 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
Hi Eliot
On 6. Jul 2022, at 00:24, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
judging from the path below, yes you moved it, but not _out of_ anything in ~/Downloads ...
Yes I did. My downloads folder is ~/Downloads. My Squeak folder is ~/Squeak. Safari downloaded Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.zip to Dowenloads, unpacked it to ~/Downloads/Squeak6, and moved the zip to the trash folder (~/.Trash) I moved Squeak6 to Squeak ($ mv ~/Downloads/Squeak6 ~/Squeak) and ran it there.
Look, the issue isn't whether I can do the right thing or not. The issue is that new users on the Mac will download via the website, likely just as I did, and they will get something that doesn't work. So instead of telling me what the right thing to do is, update the Web site so that people going there can do the right thing.
In that case, I really wonder what's going on. Can you give me the output of
ls -le@ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/
Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
-rwxr-xr-x@ 1 eliot staff 4100688 Jul 4 16:30 Squeak6/
Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
com.apple.quarantine 57
This quarantine will trip of Translocation
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app total 0 drwxr-xr-x@ 10 eliot staff 320 Jul 4 16:32 Contents com.apple.quarantine 57
xattr -l Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/
Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
com.apple.quarantine:
0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine:
0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
xattr -l $PATH_OF_THE_DOWNLOADED_THING
xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6 com.apple.quarantine:
0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Squeak$ xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6/
Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app
com.apple.quarantine:
0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Same.
Can you please try again:
- unzip
- move the AIO somewhere _not_ below ~/Donwloads a
and check that xattr or ls -le@ on the binary do not contain the quarantine?
please?
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation?
Apple is scarce on any usable stuff lately…
Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
you should not, if you moved stuff, macOS should have disabled
translocation -.-
Lapcatsoftware has old info: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/app-translocation.html
Here's someone avoiding translocation via some exploit, hence not
recommendable:
https://www.synack.com/blog/untranslocating-apps/Forum says signing the dmg or bundle helps (
https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/133743):
"
Another solution is to sign the .dmg file too, that should avoid app
translocation if I remember correctly.
Right. "
This I can help with. We have to do this for Virtend. We sign both the
app bundle and the DMG. I guess one can also sign a zip for the all-in-one (since one uploads a zip containing either the app bundle or the dmg).
Cool, maybe the signing helps. But let's first make sure the translocation does not happen when the fresh bundle is moved out of the "contaminated" location.
Best regards -Tobias
We probably have to be tighter in stuff, I just found a "howto":
signing or so…)
:( yay more work.
I have scripts etc. So LMK
Best regards -Tobias
thanks!
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda <
eliot.miranda@gmail.com>:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when Ieither launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Hi Eliot
On 6. Jul 2022, at 18:32, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:08 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote: Hi Eliot
On 6. Jul 2022, at 00:24, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
judging from the path below, yes you moved it, but not _out of_ anything in ~/Downloads ...
Yes I did. My downloads folder is ~/Downloads. My Squeak folder is ~/Squeak.
That's why I said "judging from the path below". Sorry, I may have be misled by the Squeak6 in this one: ==
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
==
I thought this Squeak6 was below ~/Downloads, as you indicated there was a Squeak6 in ~/Downloads
But I now see that the Quarantine UUID is different....
Safari downloaded Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.zip to Dowenloads, unpacked it to ~/Downloads/Squeak6, and moved the zip to the trash folder (~/.Trash) I moved Squeak6 to Squeak ($ mv ~/Downloads/Squeak6 ~/Squeak) and ran it there.
Ahh did you really do mv or did you drag-n-drop via finder? The first one won't remove the quarantine, the second one will. Apple's choice
Look, the issue isn't whether I can do the right thing or not. The issue is that new users on the Mac will download via the website, likely just as I did, and they will get something that doesn't work. So instead of telling me what the right thing to do is, update the Web site so that people going there can do the right thing.
Look the issue is that Apple wants all developers to jump on the App/Sandbox-bandwagon and make handwaving security claims as to why things we do is scary.
They only support exactly one workflow: - Download - (maybe open DMG or extract zip) - Drag-and-drop the thing to Somewhere else - run.
For any other workflow it is extremely likely to trip of Gatekeeper and its translocation.
We Cant Change that.
What we can do is: - DO not offer the AIO anymore - Force users to use the DMG - and somehow force users to move the App out of the DMG (remember the fancy background images with arrows to indicate you should drag-n-drop the newfangled program to the /Applications folder?)
Sorry, Apple seems to hate people that do not stick to the One Workflow™
Best regards -Tobias
In that case, I really wonder what's going on. Can you give me the output of
ls -le@ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak -rwxr-xr-x@ 1 eliot staff 4100688 Jul 4 16:30 Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine 57
This quarantine will trip of Translocation
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app total 0 drwxr-xr-x@ 10 eliot staff 320 Jul 4 16:32 Contents com.apple.quarantine 57
xattr -l Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
xattr -l $PATH_OF_THE_DOWNLOADED_THING
xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6 com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Squeak$ xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Same.
Can you please try again:
- unzip
- move the AIO somewhere _not_ below ~/Donwloads a
and check that xattr or ls -le@ on the binary do not contain the quarantine?
please?
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation?
Apple is scarce on any usable stuff lately…
Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
you should not, if you moved stuff, macOS should have disabled translocation -.-
Lapcatsoftware has old info: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/app-translocation.html
Here's someone avoiding translocation via some exploit, hence not recommendable: https://www.synack.com/blog/untranslocating-apps/
Forum says signing the dmg or bundle helps (https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/133743): "
Another solution is to sign the .dmg file too, that should avoid app translocation if I remember correctly.
Right. "
This I can help with. We have to do this for Virtend. We sign both the app bundle and the DMG. I guess one can also sign a zip for the all-in-one (since one uploads a zip containing either the app bundle or the dmg).
Cool, maybe the signing helps. But let's first make sure the translocation does not happen when the fresh bundle is moved out of the "contaminated" location.
Best regards -Tobias
We probably have to be tighter in stuff, I just found a "howto":
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701581#701581021
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701514#701514021 (for signing or so…)
:( yay more work.
I have scripts etc. So LMK
Best regards -Tobias
thanks!
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Hi,
Not sure if relevant for Squeak, or if it still works, but we hit the same issue some time ago in GT. At that time we used SecTranslocateIsTranslocatedURL from /System/Library/Frameworks/Security.framework/Security to "untranslocate" the app (something like [1]).
Currently we check the vm directory and based on it, in case we detect translocation, we do some workarounds. Not ideal, but avoid the issue from a user perspective.
Cheers, Andrei
[1] https://github.com/feenkcom/opensmalltalk-vm/blob/f33d1e66904066d0e1b71e225a...
On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 9:55 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
Hi Eliot
On 6. Jul 2022, at 18:32, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:08 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote: Hi Eliot
On 6. Jul 2022, at 00:24, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
judging from the path below, yes you moved it, but not _out of_ anything in ~/Downloads ...
Yes I did. My downloads folder is ~/Downloads. My Squeak folder is ~/Squeak.
That's why I said "judging from the path below". Sorry, I may have be misled by the Squeak6 in this one: ==
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
==
I thought this Squeak6 was below ~/Downloads, as you indicated there was a Squeak6 in ~/Downloads
But I now see that the Quarantine UUID is different....
Safari downloaded Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.zip to Dowenloads, unpacked it to ~/Downloads/Squeak6, and moved the zip to the trash folder (~/.Trash) I moved Squeak6 to Squeak ($ mv ~/Downloads/Squeak6 ~/Squeak) and ran it there.
Ahh did you really do mv or did you drag-n-drop via finder? The first one won't remove the quarantine, the second one will. Apple's choice
Look, the issue isn't whether I can do the right thing or not. The issue is that new users on the Mac will download via the website, likely just as I did, and they will get something that doesn't work. So instead of telling me what the right thing to do is, update the Web site so that people going there can do the right thing.
Look the issue is that Apple wants all developers to jump on the App/Sandbox-bandwagon and make handwaving security claims as to why things we do is scary.
They only support exactly one workflow:
- Download
- (maybe open DMG or extract zip)
- Drag-and-drop the thing to Somewhere else
- run.
For any other workflow it is extremely likely to trip of Gatekeeper and its translocation.
We Cant Change that.
What we can do is:
- DO not offer the AIO anymore
- Force users to use the DMG
- and somehow force users to move the App out of the DMG (remember the fancy background images with arrows to indicate you should drag-n-drop the newfangled program to the /Applications folder?)
Sorry, Apple seems to hate people that do not stick to the One Workflow™
Best regards -Tobias
In that case, I really wonder what's going on. Can you give me the output of
ls -le@ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak -rwxr-xr-x@ 1 eliot staff 4100688 Jul 4 16:30 Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine 57
This quarantine will trip of Translocation
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app total 0 drwxr-xr-x@ 10 eliot staff 320 Jul 4 16:32 Contents com.apple.quarantine 57
xattr -l Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
xattr -l $PATH_OF_THE_DOWNLOADED_THING
xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6 com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Squeak$ xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Same.
Can you please try again:
- unzip
- move the AIO somewhere _not_ below ~/Donwloads a
and check that xattr or ls -le@ on the binary do not contain the quarantine?
please?
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation?
Apple is scarce on any usable stuff lately…
Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
you should not, if you moved stuff, macOS should have disabled translocation -.-
Lapcatsoftware has old info: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/app-translocation.html
Here's someone avoiding translocation via some exploit, hence not recommendable: https://www.synack.com/blog/untranslocating-apps/
Forum says signing the dmg or bundle helps (https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/133743): "
Another solution is to sign the .dmg file too, that should avoid app translocation if I remember correctly.
Right. "
This I can help with. We have to do this for Virtend. We sign both the app bundle and the DMG. I guess one can also sign a zip for the all-in-one (since one uploads a zip containing either the app bundle or the dmg).
Cool, maybe the signing helps. But let's first make sure the translocation does not happen when the fresh bundle is moved out of the "contaminated" location.
Best regards -Tobias
We probably have to be tighter in stuff, I just found a "howto":
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701581#701581021
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701514#701514021 (for signing or so…)
:( yay more work.
I have scripts etc. So LMK
Best regards -Tobias
thanks!
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Hi, (resending the message as before I attached a picture and the message was too large)
Not sure if relevant for Squeak, or if it still works, but we hit the same issue some time ago in GT. At that time we used SecTranslocateIsTranslocatedURL from /System/Library/Frameworks/Security.framework/Security to "untranslocate" the app (something like [1]).
Currently we check the vm directory and based on it, in case we detect translocation, we do some workarounds. Not ideal, but avoid the issue from a user perspective.
Cheers, Andrei
[1] https://github.com/feenkcom/opensmalltalk-vm/blob/f33d1e66904066d0e1b71e225a...
On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 9:55 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
Hi Eliot
On 6. Jul 2022, at 18:32, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:08 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote: Hi Eliot
On 6. Jul 2022, at 00:24, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
judging from the path below, yes you moved it, but not _out of_ anything in ~/Downloads ...
Yes I did. My downloads folder is ~/Downloads. My Squeak folder is ~/Squeak.
That's why I said "judging from the path below". Sorry, I may have be misled by the Squeak6 in this one: ==
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
==
I thought this Squeak6 was below ~/Downloads, as you indicated there was a Squeak6 in ~/Downloads
But I now see that the Quarantine UUID is different....
Safari downloaded Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.zip to Dowenloads, unpacked it to ~/Downloads/Squeak6, and moved the zip to the trash folder (~/.Trash) I moved Squeak6 to Squeak ($ mv ~/Downloads/Squeak6 ~/Squeak) and ran it there.
Ahh did you really do mv or did you drag-n-drop via finder? The first one won't remove the quarantine, the second one will. Apple's choice
Look, the issue isn't whether I can do the right thing or not. The issue is that new users on the Mac will download via the website, likely just as I did, and they will get something that doesn't work. So instead of telling me what the right thing to do is, update the Web site so that people going there can do the right thing.
Look the issue is that Apple wants all developers to jump on the App/Sandbox-bandwagon and make handwaving security claims as to why things we do is scary.
They only support exactly one workflow:
- Download
- (maybe open DMG or extract zip)
- Drag-and-drop the thing to Somewhere else
- run.
For any other workflow it is extremely likely to trip of Gatekeeper and its translocation.
We Cant Change that.
What we can do is:
- DO not offer the AIO anymore
- Force users to use the DMG
- and somehow force users to move the App out of the DMG (remember the fancy background images with arrows to indicate you should drag-n-drop the newfangled program to the /Applications folder?)
Sorry, Apple seems to hate people that do not stick to the One Workflow™
Best regards -Tobias
In that case, I really wonder what's going on. Can you give me the output of
ls -le@ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak -rwxr-xr-x@ 1 eliot staff 4100688 Jul 4 16:30 Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine 57
This quarantine will trip of Translocation
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app total 0 drwxr-xr-x@ 10 eliot staff 320 Jul 4 16:32 Contents com.apple.quarantine 57
xattr -l Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
xattr -l $PATH_OF_THE_DOWNLOADED_THING
xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6 com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Squeak$ xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Same.
Can you please try again:
- unzip
- move the AIO somewhere _not_ below ~/Donwloads a
and check that xattr or ls -le@ on the binary do not contain the quarantine?
please?
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation?
Apple is scarce on any usable stuff lately…
Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
you should not, if you moved stuff, macOS should have disabled translocation -.-
Lapcatsoftware has old info: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/app-translocation.html
Here's someone avoiding translocation via some exploit, hence not recommendable: https://www.synack.com/blog/untranslocating-apps/
Forum says signing the dmg or bundle helps (https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/133743): "
Another solution is to sign the .dmg file too, that should avoid app translocation if I remember correctly.
Right. "
This I can help with. We have to do this for Virtend. We sign both the app bundle and the DMG. I guess one can also sign a zip for the all-in-one (since one uploads a zip containing either the app bundle or the dmg).
Cool, maybe the signing helps. But let's first make sure the translocation does not happen when the fresh bundle is moved out of the "contaminated" location.
Best regards -Tobias
We probably have to be tighter in stuff, I just found a "howto":
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701581#701581021
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701514#701514021 (for signing or so…)
:( yay more work.
I have scripts etc. So LMK
Best regards -Tobias
thanks!
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Hi Eliot --
Look, the issue isn't whether I can do the right thing or not. The issue is that new users on the Mac will download via the website, likely just as I did, and they will get something that doesn't work. So instead of telling me what the right thing to do is, update the Web site so that people going there can do the right thing.
I updated the instructions on https://squeak.org/downloads [https://squeak.org/downloads]. Normal users will not use "mv" but rather drag-and-drop. That's why this is a non-issue if you download the .dmg file. For the AIO-ZIP, yes, that auto-extract to ~/Downloads is tricky. From there, you must "do the drag" and not use "mv". Then it works.
Also keep your .sources file either besides the .image or the .app or the binary. There is no automatic lookup into the .app bundle's resources folder from the outside.
Best, Marcel Am 06.07.2022 18:33:15 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 10:08 PM Tobias Pape <Das.Linux@gmx.de [mailto:Das.Linux@gmx.de]> wrote:
Hi Eliot
On 6. Jul 2022, at 00:24, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com [mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com]> wrote:
[...]
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
judging from the path below, yes you moved it, but not _out of_ anything in ~/Downloads ...
Yes I did. My downloads folder is ~/Downloads. My Squeak folder is ~/Squeak. Safari downloaded Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.zip to Dowenloads, unpacked it to ~/Downloads/Squeak6, and moved the zip to the trash folder (~/.Trash) I moved Squeak6 to Squeak ($ mv ~/Downloads/Squeak6 ~/Squeak) and ran it there.
Look, the issue isn't whether I can do the right thing or not. The issue is that new users on the Mac will download via the website, likely just as I did, and they will get something that doesn't work. So instead of telling me what the right thing to do is, update the Web site so that people going there can do the right thing.
In that case, I really wonder what's going on. Can you give me the output of
ls -le@ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak] Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak] -rwxr-xr-x@ 1 eliot staff 4100688 Jul 4 16:30 Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak] com.apple.quarantine 57
This quarantine will trip of Translocation
Squeak$ ls -le@ Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app] total 0 drwxr-xr-x@ 10 eliot staff 320 Jul 4 16:32 Contents com.apple.quarantine 57
xattr -l Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak]
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak] com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
Squeak$ xattr -l Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app] com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c487a3;Safari;2D1FCF49-69DA-447C-BA51-16CC663654C4
xattr -l $PATH_OF_THE_DOWNLOADED_THING
xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6 com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Squeak$ xattr -l ~/Downloads/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app] com.apple.quarantine: 0083;62c4b913;Safari;90386985-D5B9-4492-AF0B-766931630126
Same.
Can you please try again: * unzip * move the AIO somewhere _not_ below ~/Donwloads a
and check that xattr or ls -le@ on the binary do not contain the quarantine?
please?
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation?
Apple is scarce on any usable stuff lately…
Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
you should not, if you moved stuff, macOS should have disabled translocation -.-
Lapcatsoftware has old info: https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/app-translocation.html [https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/app-translocation.html]
Here's someone avoiding translocation via some exploit, hence not recommendable: https://www.synack.com/blog/untranslocating-apps/ [https://www.synack.com/blog/untranslocating-apps/]
Forum says signing the dmg or bundle helps (https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/133743 [https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/133743]): "
Another solution is to sign the .dmg file too, that should avoid app translocation if I remember correctly.
Right. "
This I can help with. We have to do this for Virtend. We sign both the app bundle and the DMG. I guess one can also sign a zip for the all-in-one (since one uploads a zip containing either the app bundle or the dmg).
Cool, maybe the signing helps. But let's first make sure the translocation does not happen when the fresh bundle is moved out of the "contaminated" location.
Best regards -Tobias
We probably have to be tighter in stuff, I just found a "howto":
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701581#701581021 [https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701581#701581021]
- https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701514#701514021 [https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/701514#701514021] (for signing or so…)
:( yay more work.
I have scripts etc. So LMK
Best regards -Tobias
thanks!
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com [mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com]>:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
--
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot
Hi Eliot --
2. macos (12.4) unzipped the all-in-one bundle into a ~/Downloads/Squeak6 directory [...]
That's the issue. You must unzip it into a path other than ~/Downloads/...
Best, Marcel Am 05.07.2022 21:20:46 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:13 PM Tobias Pape <Das.Linux@gmx.de [mailto:Das.Linux@gmx.de]> wrote:
Hi Eliot, all
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:08, Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.de [mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de]> wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
- Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container.
- Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop.
- Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app.
- That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
The keyword "AppTranslocation" hints that the bundle was started from the Download location or the DMG.
1. I downloaded the all-in-one. 2. macos (12.4) unzipped the all-in-one bundle into a ~/Downloads/Squeak6 directory, containing the fat binary mac app bundle containing the other VMs and the Mac VM in ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/ [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/] 3. I moved this to my Squeak directory, giving me ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app%5D%C2%A0et al 4. I copied the image and changes file into a ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0 directory as trunk6-64.image/changes 5. I dropped the image on the ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app%5D%C2%A0bundle and got the translocation 6. I opened the app using the command line from ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0: open trunk6-64.image -a ~/Squeak/Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app] --stdout=`tty` --stderr=`tty` and got the translocation 7. I ran the VM binary from the command line: ../Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak [http://Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak] trunk6-64.image and got the warning about no sources in ../Squeak6
Please throw away the app or DMG, download again and MOVE the app somewhere else, and then start. This precludes translocation.
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation? Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com [mailto:eliot.miranda@gmail.com]>:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I either launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
--
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot
On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 2:11 AM Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi Eliot --
- macos (12.4) unzipped the all-in-one bundle into a
~/Downloads/Squeak6 directory [...]
That's the issue. You must unzip it into a path other than ~/Downloads/...
But when one uses Safari to download the all-in-one from www.squeak.org/downloads, Safari unzips for you and moves the zip to trash. So if we want our Mac users not to fall into the same trap as I, then the website needs clear and visible instructions on and around the download link. I did what any Mac user would do, and ended up with something that does not behave as we want.
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:20:46 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com:
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:13 PM Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de wrote:
Hi Eliot, all
On 5. Jul 2022, at 21:08, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
- Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container.
- Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop.
- Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app.
- That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some
temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
The keyword "AppTranslocation" hints that the bundle was started from the Download location or the DMG.
- I downloaded the all-in-one.
- macos (12.4) unzipped the all-in-one bundle into a ~/Downloads/Squeak6
directory, containing the fat binary mac app bundle containing the other VMs and the Mac VM in ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/ 3. I moved this to my Squeak directory, giving me ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app et al 4. I copied the image and changes file into a ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0 directory as trunk6-64.image/changes 5. I dropped the image on the ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app bundle and got the translocation 6. I opened the app using the command line from ~/Squeak/Squeak6.0: open trunk6-64.image -a ~/Squeak/Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app --stdout=`tty` --stderr=`tty` and got the translocation 7. I ran the VM binary from the command line: ../Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak trunk6-64.image and got the warning about no sources in ../Squeak6
Please throw away the app or DMG, download again and MOVE the app somewhere else, and then start. This precludes translocation.
I'm not using the DMG. I downloaded the all-in-one, and moved it.
(this is unavoidable.)
Have you got a pointer to the relevant documentation? Do I have to duplicate the Squeak6 directory?
Best regards -Tobias
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda@gmail.com
:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when Ieither launch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
<image.png> _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
-- _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
Hi Marcel,
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:09 PM Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi Eliot --
I cannot reproduce that issue on macOS 11.6.5.
- Download Squeak 6.0 as .dmg container.
I should have said, I'm using the all-in-one, on macOS 12.4
- Move contents (.app), for example, onto desktop.
- Drop an arbitrary .image onto that .app.
- That .image will be opened.
Well, your "Note" looks like you are trying to run that .app from some temporary folder? How did you achieve that?
That's macOS magic, not me :-) That's why I raised the issue. It looks like the app is being launched in a sandbox, which isn't at all what we want. Anyone have any idea why, or how to change this?
Best, Marcel
Am 05.07.2022 21:03:47 schrieb Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com: Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I eitherlaunch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
[image: image.png] _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
and if I launch on the command line, e.g.
../Squeak6/Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak trunk6-64.image
then the complaint is that "Squeak cannot locate the sources file named /Users/eliot/Squeak/Squeak6/SqueakV60.sources". So if possible the sources file (which is, in the all-in-one in Squeak6/ Squeak6.0-22101-64bit-All-in-One.app/Contents/Resources/SqueakV60.sources) should be linked into the root Squeak6 directory.
On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 12:03 PM Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
apologies for raining on the parade. Here's what I get when I eitherlaunch the Squeak6 app bundle or drop an image on it. How can this be fixed? It's not a good default.
[image: image.png] _,,,^..^,,,_ best, Eliot
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