Fwd: [Pharo-project] Squeaksource.com (was: [squeak-dev] Re: Addition to "About Pharo" dialog)
When it looked like most of global open source Smalltalk development came to a halt last weekend because of squeaksource.com being down for about two days, I asked about moving vital parts like vmmaker to source.squeak.org . This would take some load from squeaksource.com (even if it is until there is a better alternative) and could make commits to vmmaker faster. As suggested I move the discussion to vm-dev.
Alex ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Date: 2011/8/27 Subject: [Pharo-project] Squeaksource.com (was: [squeak-dev] Re: Addition to "About Pharo" dialog) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list < squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org> Cc: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr
On 26.08.2011, at 18:14, Alexander Lazarević wrote:
Wouldn't it make also good sense to move some vital stuff like the vmmaker repo to this destination? I know this will be controversial, but the current situation is bad at best.
That would be a good idea IMHO - you might ask what the other VM developers think of the idea on the vm-dev list.
+1.
Cheers, - Andreas
On 8/31/2011 7:19, Alexander Lazarević wrote:
When it looked like most of global open source Smalltalk development came to a halt last weekend because of squeaksource.com http://squeaksource.com being down for about two days, I asked about moving vital parts like vmmaker to source.squeak.org http://source.squeak.org . This would take some load from squeaksource.com http://squeaksource.com (even if it is until there is a better alternative) and could make commits to vmmaker faster. As suggested I move the discussion to vm-dev.
Alex ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *Bert Freudenberg* <bert@freudenbergs.de mailto:bert@freudenbergs.de> Date: 2011/8/27 Subject: [Pharo-project] Squeaksource.com (was: [squeak-dev] Re: Addition to "About Pharo" dialog) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org mailto:squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org> Cc: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr
On 26.08.2011 tel:26.08.2011, at 18:14, Alexander Lazarević wrote:
Wouldn't it make also good sense to move some vital stuff like the vmmaker repo to this destination? I know this will be controversial, but the current situation is bad at best.
That would be a good idea IMHO - you might ask what the other VM developers think of the idea on the vm-dev list.
+1.
lets do that.
Sidenote: besides the inconvenience which makes us frequent collapse of SqS service, I feel happy that smalltalk grown beyond the capacity which squeaksource can handle. Lets not forget that it served us well for years, thanks to people for developed it and maintained it over the years.
So, lets solve this problem and move on.
On 31 August 2011 21:07, Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de wrote:
+1.
Cheers, - Andreas
On 8/31/2011 7:19, Alexander Lazarević wrote:
When it looked like most of global open source Smalltalk development came to a halt last weekend because of squeaksource.com being down for about two days, I asked about moving vital parts like vmmaker to source.squeak.org . This would take some load from squeaksource.com (even if it is until there is a better alternative) and could make commits to vmmaker faster. As suggested I move the discussion to vm-dev.
Alex ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Date: 2011/8/27 Subject: [Pharo-project] Squeaksource.com (was: [squeak-dev] Re: Addition to "About Pharo" dialog) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Cc: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr
On 26.08.2011, at 18:14, Alexander Lazarević wrote:
Wouldn't it make also good sense to move some vital stuff like the vmmaker repo to this destination? I know this will be controversial, but the current situation is bad at best.
That would be a good idea IMHO - you might ask what the other VM developers think of the idea on the vm-dev list.
is source.squeak backed up seriously? Because we thought ss was but it was not during a moment and this was fixed since last year. We discovered that the key cronjob was not reset or whatever. This is why for SmalltalkHub we asked INRIA and they proposed to put in place and automatic backup of the server on three locations in france: lille, nancy, grenoble as part of their infrastructure backup. So as soon as SmalltalkHub is released and installed on INRIA server I will really check that point with them. We got several back ups hard disc crashing (and not maintained by INRIA and replication was a good way to avoid losing info) and now I want to push that to our services to be totally safe.
Stef
+1.
lets do that.
Sidenote: besides the inconvenience which makes us frequent collapse of SqS service, I feel happy that smalltalk grown beyond the capacity which squeaksource can handle. Lets not forget that it served us well for years, thanks to people for developed it and maintained it over the years.
So, lets solve this problem and move on.
On 31 August 2011 21:07, Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de wrote:
+1.
Cheers,
- Andreas
On 8/31/2011 7:19, Alexander Lazarević wrote:
When it looked like most of global open source Smalltalk development came to a halt last weekend because of squeaksource.com being down for about two days, I asked about moving vital parts like vmmaker to source.squeak.org . This would take some load from squeaksource.com (even if it is until there is a better alternative) and could make commits to vmmaker faster. As suggested I move the discussion to vm-dev.
Alex ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Date: 2011/8/27 Subject: [Pharo-project] Squeaksource.com (was: [squeak-dev] Re: Addition to "About Pharo" dialog) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Cc: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr
On 26.08.2011, at 18:14, Alexander Lazarević wrote:
Wouldn't it make also good sense to move some vital stuff like the vmmaker repo to this destination? I know this will be controversial, but the current situation is bad at best.
That would be a good idea IMHO - you might ask what the other VM developers think of the idea on the vm-dev list.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 07:19:43AM +0200, Alexander Lazarevi?? wrote:
When it looked like most of global open source Smalltalk development came to a halt last weekend because of squeaksource.com being down for about two days, I asked about moving vital parts like vmmaker to source.squeak.org . This would take some load from squeaksource.com (even if it is until there is a better alternative) and could make commits to vmmaker faster. As suggested I move the discussion to vm-dev.
Alex ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Date: 2011/8/27 Subject: [Pharo-project] Squeaksource.com (was: [squeak-dev] Re: Addition to "About Pharo" dialog) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list < squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org> Cc: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr
On 26.08.2011, at 18:14, Alexander Lazarevi?? wrote:
Wouldn't it make also good sense to move some vital stuff like the vmmaker repo to this destination? I know this will be controversial, but the current situation is bad at best.
That would be a good idea IMHO - you might ask what the other VM developers think of the idea on the vm-dev list.
+1
I would support moving VMMaker from squeaksource.com to source.squeak.org. If we do so, I think we should have explicit agreement from the core VM maintainers - Ian, Andreas and Esteban - as well as from Eliot and Igor, who are most actively involved in new development. Approval of the Squeak board would also be in order.
I do not think that source.squeak.org should become a general purpose repository, but VMMaker represents an essential part of Squeak (including Pharo, Cuis and others) that should be maintained such that it can be used by anyone as if it were a standard part of the image. For that reason, maintaining the VMMaker package on source.squeak.org makes sense to me in the long term, and of course it addresses some short terms issues with squeaksource also.
We have to recognize that in the last couple of years there has been a huge increase in activity in the VMMaker project, and there is some risk of this getting out of hand in the future as various projects evolve and diverge from Squeak itself. But from my point of view we have been quite successful at managing this so far (albeit in a rather ad-hoc way), and I believe that there is enough good will and competence in the Squeak/Pharo community to deal with issues and possible conflicting goals in the future. So as long as the key maintainers and developers are comfortable with this, I see no problem with hosting VMMaker on source.squeak.org.
To be clear, I do *not* think that we should move VMMaker solely because of reliability problems on squeaksource. That is a problem that needs to be solved in some other way, and moving key packages off squeaksource does not contribute to a solution. However, I do think that moving VMMaker to source.squeak.org is a good thing to do in its own right, and I support it on that basis.
Dave
"David" == David T Lewis lewis@mail.msen.com writes:
David> To be clear, I do *not* think that we should move VMMaker David> solely because of reliability problems on squeaksource. That David> is a problem that needs to be solved in some other way, and David> moving key packages off squeaksource does not contribute to David> a solution. However, I do think that moving VMMaker to David> source.squeak.org is a good thing to do in its own right, and David> I support it on that basis.
+1
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 12:06 PM, David T. Lewis lewis@mail.msen.comwrote:
On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 07:19:43AM +0200, Alexander Lazarevi?? wrote:
When it looked like most of global open source Smalltalk development came
to
a halt last weekend because of squeaksource.com being down for about two days, I asked about moving vital parts like vmmaker to source.squeak.org. This would take some load from squeaksource.com (even if it is until
there
is a better alternative) and could make commits to vmmaker faster. As suggested I move the discussion to vm-dev.
Alex ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de Date: 2011/8/27 Subject: [Pharo-project] Squeaksource.com (was: [squeak-dev] Re: Addition
to
"About Pharo" dialog) To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list < squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org> Cc: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr
On 26.08.2011, at 18:14, Alexander Lazarevi?? wrote:
Wouldn't it make also good sense to move some vital stuff like the
vmmaker
repo to this destination? I know this will be controversial, but the
current
situation is bad at best.
That would be a good idea IMHO - you might ask what the other VM
developers
think of the idea on the vm-dev list.
+1
I would support moving VMMaker from squeaksource.com to source.squeak.org. If we do so, I think we should have explicit agreement from the core VM maintainers - Ian, Andreas and Esteban - as well as from Eliot and Igor, who are most actively involved in new development. Approval of the Squeak board would also be in order.
I have no objection. Just give me a heads up :)
I do not think that source.squeak.org should become a general purpose repository, but VMMaker represents an essential part of Squeak (including Pharo, Cuis and others) that should be maintained such that it can be used by anyone as if it were a standard part of the image. For that reason, maintaining the VMMaker package on source.squeak.org makes sense to me in the long term, and of course it addresses some short terms issues with squeaksource also.
We have to recognize that in the last couple of years there has been a huge increase in activity in the VMMaker project, and there is some risk of this getting out of hand in the future as various projects evolve and diverge from Squeak itself. But from my point of view we have been quite successful at managing this so far (albeit in a rather ad-hoc way), and I believe that there is enough good will and competence in the Squeak/Pharo community to deal with issues and possible conflicting goals in the future. So as long as the key maintainers and developers are comfortable with this, I see no problem with hosting VMMaker on source.squeak.org.
To be clear, I do *not* think that we should move VMMaker solely because of reliability problems on squeaksource. That is a problem that needs to be solved in some other way, and moving key packages off squeaksource does not contribute to a solution. However, I do think that moving VMMaker to source.squeak.org is a good thing to do in its own right, and I support it on that basis.
Dave
2011/8/31 Alexander Lazarević laza@blobworks.com
As suggested I move the discussion to vm-dev.
Using the list of VM-Developers from SqueakSource I think this is the current picture:
pro move:
Bert Freudenberg Dave Lewis Andreas Raab Igor Stasenko Eliot Miranda
no response:
John M McIntosh Mariano Martínez Peck Levente Uzonyi Ian Piumarta Torsten Bergmann Craig Latta Esteban Lorenzano Joshua Gargus Ken Treis
Which gives? Or what's next?
Alex
Oh, well... I was on the road :) in my opinion, I would like to wait until smalltalkhub is running and then move to it. But well... vmmaker on ss was not being any useful for anyone, and an action to fix that was taken... I support that.
cheers, Esteban
El 05/09/2011, a las 7:57a.m., Alexander Lazarević escribió:
2011/8/31 Alexander Lazarević laza@blobworks.com
As suggested I move the discussion to vm-dev.
Using the list of VM-Developers from SqueakSource I think this is the current picture:
pro move:
Bert Freudenberg Dave Lewis Andreas Raab Igor Stasenko Eliot Miranda
no response:
John M McIntosh Mariano Martínez Peck Levente Uzonyi Ian Piumarta Torsten Bergmann Craig Latta Esteban Lorenzano Joshua Gargus Ken Treis
Which gives? Or what's next?
Alex
On 05.09.2011, at 12:57, Alexander Lazarević wrote:
2011/8/31 Alexander Lazarević laza@blobworks.com
As suggested I move the discussion to vm-dev.
Which gives? Or what's next?
Alex
Hab mal ein klein wenig Geduld, es war schließlich Wochenende ;) David verkündet das sicher heute noch:
http://source.squeak.org/VMMaker.html
- Bert -
On 05.09.2011, at 14:10, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 05.09.2011, at 12:57, Alexander Lazarević wrote:
2011/8/31 Alexander Lazarević laza@blobworks.com
As suggested I move the discussion to vm-dev.
Which gives? Or what's next?
Alex
Hab mal ein klein wenig Geduld, es war schließlich Wochenende ;) David verkündet das sicher heute noch:
http://source.squeak.org/VMMaker.html
- Bert -
Obviously that was supposed to be a private message. Nothing too embarrassing fortunately, I was just asking Alex to be patient.
The official announcement by VM dev team lead David is going to follow soonish.
- Bert -
w00t
2011/9/5 Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de:
Obviously that was supposed to be a private message. Nothing too embarrassing fortunately, I was just asking Alex to be patient.
The official announcement by VM dev team lead David is going to follow soonish.
vm-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Alexander Lazarević -
Andreas Raab -
Bert Freudenberg -
David T. Lewis -
Eliot Miranda -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Igor Stasenko -
merlyn＠stonehenge.com -
stephane ducasse