Hi Andreas,
thanks for sharing this.
A few questions:
1. Is nuking the Win32VMMaker and loading the one from "platforms\win32\build\Win32VMMaker.st" still required as described on http://squeakvm.org/win32/compiling.html?
Looks like the code is already integrated in VMMaker, so is this obsolete?
2. Do you still use the ToolChain with the "old" GCC 2.95-2 as provided on Squeakvm.org or is there something newer than http://squeakvm.org/win32/release/Squeak-Win32-Tools-1.2.zip
3. Is the quicktime plugin running on Win32? Last posting I've found:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/squeak-list/3325977
and there is also
http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/study/courses/OMP/public/software/sqcdrom2/Packages/... but the changeset is gone
4. When I make the freetype plugin an internal plugin (to distribute VM with all plugins + image only) I get:
./obj/vm/FT2Plugin.lib(FT2Plugin.o.b): In function `initialiseModule': //C/squeak/vmmaker/vm/3115/testbuild/obj/FT2Plugin/../.././src/FT2Plug in/FT2Plugin.c:419: undefined reference to `FT_Init_FreeType'
5. Are there any plans for having Alien Plugin for Win32 in the Win32 SqueakVM distribution? What is the state here?
6. Any plans regarding fixing the "service" stuff (see my posting in "Win32 VM Service facility broken?")
Thanks Torsten
Torsten Bergmann wrote:
Is nuking the Win32VMMaker and loading the one from "platforms\win32\build\Win32VMMaker.st" still required as described on http://squeakvm.org/win32/compiling.html?
Looks like the code is already integrated in VMMaker, so is this obsolete?
Correct. I'll update the page.
- Do you still use the ToolChain with the "old" GCC 2.95-2 as provided on Squeakvm.org or is there something newer than http://squeakvm.org/win32/release/Squeak-Win32-Tools-1.2.zip
I'm still using the same version. However, I'll make an "inofficial" comment that the main reason for using this version of gcc (performance) has gone away with the JIT and we're looking at alternatives that provide better debugging support.
Is the quicktime plugin running on Win32? Last posting I've found:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/squeak-list/3325977
and there is also
http://www.fit.vutbr.cz/study/courses/OMP/public/software/sqcdrom2/Packages/... but the changeset is gone
The Quicktime plugin is currently unsupported. I don't know what it takes to make it work. If you send me the necessary support code I'll add it.
When I make the freetype plugin an internal plugin (to distribute VM with all plugins + image only) I get:
./obj/vm/FT2Plugin.lib(FT2Plugin.o.b): In function `initialiseModule': //C/squeak/vmmaker/vm/3115/testbuild/obj/FT2Plugin/../.././src/FT2Plug in/FT2Plugin.c:419: undefined reference to `FT_Init_FreeType'
I haven't tried to build it internally. I know it works if you build it externally though.
- Are there any plans for having Alien Plugin for Win32 in the Win32 SqueakVM distribution? What is the state here?
Same as before. Generally speaking, I don't build VMs from changesets patching VMMaker (it's a very fragile way to come up with the same result each time you need a build) so unless the required Alien patches are integrated into VMMaker I won't spend any time on it.
- Any plans regarding fixing the "service" stuff (see my posting in "Win32 VM Service facility broken?")
No concrete plans right now but if you send code I'll use it ;-)
Cheers, - Andreas
On 2009-11-10, at 8:57 AM, Andreas Raab wrote:
- Are there any plans for having Alien Plugin for Win32 in the
Win32 SqueakVM distribution? What is the state here?
Same as before. Generally speaking, I don't build VMs from changesets patching VMMaker (it's a very fragile way to come up with the same result each time you need a build) so unless the required Alien patches are integrated into VMMaker I won't spend any time on it.
Having this I think would be good, or at least I think that is what the Pharo community wants.
-- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com Twitter: squeaker68882 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================
Brief update:
Torsten Bergmann wrote:
- Is nuking the Win32VMMaker and loading the one from "platforms\win32\build\Win32VMMaker.st" still required as described on http://squeakvm.org/win32/compiling.html?
The web page has been fixed.
When I make the freetype plugin an internal plugin (to distribute VM with all plugins + image only) I get:
./obj/vm/FT2Plugin.lib(FT2Plugin.o.b): In function `initialiseModule': //C/squeak/vmmaker/vm/3115/testbuild/obj/FT2Plugin/../.././src/FT2Plug in/FT2Plugin.c:419: undefined reference to `FT_Init_FreeType'
This is a linker issue; freetype.a isn't included in the final VM link which it needs if you want to make FT2Plugin internal. I'm not sure how to deal with it in the long term, for now you can add the following line to winbuild/Makefile (after the STDLIBS definition):
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
Cheers, - Andreas
2009/11/11 Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de:
Brief update:
Torsten Bergmann wrote:
- Is nuking the Win32VMMaker and loading the one from
"platforms\win32\build\Win32VMMaker.st" still required as described on http://squeakvm.org/win32/compiling.html?
The web page has been fixed.
- When I make the freetype plugin an internal plugin (to distribute
VM with all plugins + image only) I get:
./obj/vm/FT2Plugin.lib(FT2Plugin.o.b): In function `initialiseModule': //C/squeak/vmmaker/vm/3115/testbuild/obj/FT2Plugin/../.././src/FT2Plug in/FT2Plugin.c:419: undefined reference to `FT_Init_FreeType'
This is a linker issue; freetype.a isn't included in the final VM link which it needs if you want to make FT2Plugin internal. I'm not sure how to deal with it in the long term, for now you can add the following line to winbuild/Makefile (after the STDLIBS definition):
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
Yeah. The solution is to change the main makefile to include 'makefile.extras' (if it exists), which should be located in plugin dirs, so in such 'makefile.extras' one could write:
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
but i don't remember the syntax for file inclusion, and not sure that make utility in Win32-Tools-1.2.zip supports includes.
Cheers, - Andreas
Igor Stasenko wrote:
This is a linker issue; freetype.a isn't included in the final VM link which it needs if you want to make FT2Plugin internal. I'm not sure how to deal with it in the long term, for now you can add the following line to winbuild/Makefile (after the STDLIBS definition):
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
Yeah. The solution is to change the main makefile to include 'makefile.extras' (if it exists), which should be located in plugin dirs, so in such 'makefile.extras' one could write:
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
but i don't remember the syntax for file inclusion, and not sure that make utility in Win32-Tools-1.2.zip supports includes.
This exists and is actually already used by the external build of the FT2Plugin (see platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/Makefile). The issue is that a custom Makefile isn't included by default for the main VM build (because it includes Makefile.plugin in return) so it's a bit of classic recursive Makefile invocation / inclusion nightmare. Are there any decent alternatives to make these days? (by "decent" I mean small and to the point, not requiring megabytes of additional installation crap)
Cheers, - Andreas
2009/11/11 Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de:
Igor Stasenko wrote:
This is a linker issue; freetype.a isn't included in the final VM link which it needs if you want to make FT2Plugin internal. I'm not sure how to deal with it in the long term, for now you can add the following line to winbuild/Makefile (after the STDLIBS definition):
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
Yeah. The solution is to change the main makefile to include 'makefile.extras' (if it exists), which should be located in plugin dirs, so in such 'makefile.extras' one could write:
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
but i don't remember the syntax for file inclusion, and not sure that make utility in Win32-Tools-1.2.zip supports includes.
This exists and is actually already used by the external build of the FT2Plugin (see platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/Makefile). The issue is that a custom Makefile isn't included by default for the main VM build (because it includes Makefile.plugin in return) so it's a bit of classic recursive Makefile invocation / inclusion nightmare. Are there any decent alternatives to make these days? (by "decent" I mean small and to the point, not requiring megabytes of additional installation crap)
no no.. include but not call.
make anotherMakefile - is a separate call, in which you unable to see & change any environment vars of caller.
include directive, however works similar to C/C++ #include directive - puts the contents of included file in-place.
If you had a chance to see how FreeBSD using makefiles in their ports collection, they use include directive extensively. This is quite different from 'make anotherMakefile ' calls.
See http://www.gnu.org/software/automake/manual/make/Include.html
Cheers, - Andreas
2009/11/11 Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com:
2009/11/11 Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de:
Igor Stasenko wrote:
This is a linker issue; freetype.a isn't included in the final VM link which it needs if you want to make FT2Plugin internal. I'm not sure how to deal with it in the long term, for now you can add the following line to winbuild/Makefile (after the STDLIBS definition):
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
Yeah. The solution is to change the main makefile to include 'makefile.extras' (if it exists), which should be located in plugin dirs, so in such 'makefile.extras' one could write:
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
but i don't remember the syntax for file inclusion, and not sure that make utility in Win32-Tools-1.2.zip supports includes.
This exists and is actually already used by the external build of the FT2Plugin (see platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/Makefile). The issue is that a custom Makefile isn't included by default for the main VM build (because it includes Makefile.plugin in return) so it's a bit of classic recursive Makefile invocation / inclusion nightmare. Are there any decent alternatives to make these days? (by "decent" I mean small and to the point, not requiring megabytes of additional installation crap)
no no.. include but not call.
oh ... wait , i see FT2Plugin uses include already :)
well, if all custom makefiles were ment to be included into main makefile at first place, then you won't need to include the Makefile.plugin in platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/Makefile, isnt?
Concerning alternatives, we having OSProcess... so it is possibly to write and run a build process (or just generate a makefiles) using VMMaker. I think this would be much better, simpler & leaner comparing to hand-crafted makefiles with ugly & bogus syntax, shell discrepancies and so on... :)
Cheers, - Andreas
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 09:20:19AM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
Concerning alternatives, we having OSProcess... so it is possibly to write and run a build process (or just generate a makefiles) using VMMaker. I think this would be much better, simpler & leaner comparing to hand-crafted makefiles with ugly & bogus syntax, shell discrepancies and so on... :)
Funny you should mention it, I actually did this back in the time of Squeak 2.8 or so, and I even had it integrated into the VMMaker user interface so you could do a one-click build. See UnixProcess class>>makeVmIn: for the remnants of that experiment.
To be honest, I'm not sure it's all that useful, given that I don't even bother to use it myself any more. But it was kind of cool that it worked ;-)
Also I suppose that I would need to re-motivate myself to get OSProcess working properly on Win32 before it could be seriously considered for this sort of thing.
Dave
On 11-Nov-09, at 6:44 PM, David T. Lewis wrote:
Also I suppose that I would need to re-motivate myself to get OSProcess working properly on Win32 before it could be seriously considered for this sort of thing.
Oh, please do. Squeak would be so much more powerful if we could rely on OSProcess in the base image.
Colin
2009/11/12 David T. Lewis lewis@mail.msen.com:
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 09:20:19AM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote:
Concerning alternatives, we having OSProcess... so it is possibly to write and run a build process (or just generate a makefiles) using VMMaker. I think this would be much better, simpler & leaner comparing to hand-crafted makefiles with ugly & bogus syntax, shell discrepancies and so on... :)
Funny you should mention it, I actually did this back in the time of Squeak 2.8 or so, and I even had it integrated into the VMMaker user interface so you could do a one-click build. See UnixProcess class>>makeVmIn: for the remnants of that experiment.
To be honest, I'm not sure it's all that useful, given that I don't even bother to use it myself any more. But it was kind of cool that it worked ;-)
Also I suppose that I would need to re-motivate myself to get OSProcess working properly on Win32 before it could be seriously considered for this sort of thing.
I wasn't here at those days, but frankly, what could be better than clean & beatiful smalltalk code? Could makefiles expressions replicate the powers of smalltalk? :) And so i wonder why it was abandoned. As i said, we could generate the makefiles, and don't use OSProcess, and even this is good step forward in avoiding some discrepancies which we just discussed here , like unability to link the 3rd-party library with VM without manually hacking the makefile.
Dave
On Thursday 12 November 2009 08:14:54 am David T. Lewis wrote:
To be honest, I'm not sure it's all that useful, given that I don't even bother to use it myself any more. But it was kind of cool that it worked ;-)
Please share your frontline experiences. I found OSProcess very useful as a facade (shell) to query and access host facilities and services. Its inadequate file and network i/o facilities may come in the way of creating stuff like scripts but this gap is not formidable. It would be so nice to simply probe a system and compile/load a plugin on the fly.
Many apps that run on multiple platforms (compilers, interpreters, desktop managers like KDE, typesetters like TeXLive, firefox, openoffice.org, audio/video/picture converters) are exposed only through command line services and not over a network socket. OSProcess can assist in accessing their services easily.
Subbu
I think a good alternative to the current make system would be the CMAKE-system. The current UNIX build process is CMAKE-based. It works for me like a charme. Using CMAKE you get MS VisualStudio-Solutions and the Microsoft compiler suite too.
Marco Schmidt
2009/11/11 Andreas Raab andreas.raab@gmx.de:
Igor Stasenko wrote:
This is a linker issue; freetype.a isn't included in the final VM link which it needs if you want to make FT2Plugin internal. I'm not sure how to deal with it in the long term, for now you can add the following line to winbuild/Makefile (after the STDLIBS definition):
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
Yeah. The solution is to change the main makefile to include 'makefile.extras' (if it exists), which should be located in plugin dirs, so in such 'makefile.extras' one could write:
STDLIBS += ../platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/freetype.a
but i don't remember the syntax for file inclusion, and not sure that make utility in Win32-Tools-1.2.zip supports includes.
This exists and is actually already used by the external build of the FT2Plugin (see platforms/win32/plugins/FT2Plugin/Makefile). The issue is that a custom Makefile isn't included by default for the main VM build (because it includes Makefile.plugin in return) so it's a bit of classic recursive Makefile invocation / inclusion nightmare. Are there any decent alternatives to make these days? (by "decent" I mean small and to the point, not requiring megabytes of additional installation crap)
Cheers, - Andreas
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