Re: [Pharo-dev] NB and assembly methods (WAS: a lot of non-constructive things I refuse to talk about :)
Hi Igor,
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:16 AM, Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com wrote:
On 11 February 2014 10:56, Esteban Lorenzano estebanlm@gmail.com wrote:
PS. I am hacking on protobuf in Pharo 3.0 and noticed cool NB assembler
in some places - are such methods creeping into base libraries now? What does that mean for other CPUs? Sorry, for changing subject - feel free to reply under different subject.
Hi Goran,
Yes... since NB and Athens, there are some methods in assembler spread around. Is my opinion that all assembler-containing methods should be refactored into a more comprensible unit (and that can be changed by another set of assembly instrucction when we achieve multiplatform-NB). Today they are all along Athens, and if we continue this path they will be all along Pharo soon. I would better modularise that. But Igor maybe has something different to say :)
Esteban
not much to add to what i already been said:
- have any other CPU which can run pharo JIT? No? Will talk when it will
be available.
There's an unfortunate chicken-and-egg problem here. The way we develop a new platform with Cog is to build a simulator for the CPU and run the VM simulator above the CPU simulator. But, by making Pharo non-portable because NB only works on x86 you've made it extremely difficult to use a Pharo image to develop the new platform. That will be really important when x86-64 comes into the picture, which it shoudl sometime later this year. In fact its worse. Because there is no simulator support for NB I can't even start up a Pharo image on the current simulator and that's directly affecting my ability to sup[port Clément in the Sista work. Note that we already have an ARM simulator and unfortunately Pharo can't run on that simulator either. Some way of making NB get out of the way except on x86 until it is portable would be much appreciated.
Doing anything before that is just waste of time.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
On 11 Feb 2014, at 20:08, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Igor,
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:16 AM, Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com wrote:
On 11 February 2014 10:56, Esteban Lorenzano estebanlm@gmail.com wrote:
PS. I am hacking on protobuf in Pharo 3.0 and noticed cool NB assembler in some places - are such methods creeping into base libraries now? What does that mean for other CPUs? Sorry, for changing subject - feel free to reply under different subject.
Hi Goran,
Yes… since NB and Athens, there are some methods in assembler spread around. Is my opinion that all assembler-containing methods should be refactored into a more comprensible unit (and that can be changed by another set of assembly instrucction when we achieve multiplatform-NB). Today they are all along Athens, and if we continue this path they will be all along Pharo soon. I would better modularise that. But Igor maybe has something different to say :)
Esteban
not much to add to what i already been said:
- have any other CPU which can run pharo JIT? No? Will talk when it will be available.
There's an unfortunate chicken-and-egg problem here. The way we develop a new platform with Cog is to build a simulator for the CPU and run the VM simulator above the CPU simulator. But, by making Pharo non-portable because NB only works on x86 you've made it extremely difficult to use a Pharo image to develop the new platform. That will be really important when x86-64 comes into the picture, which it shoudl sometime later this year. In fact its worse. Because there is no simulator support for NB I can't even start up a Pharo image on the current simulator and that's directly affecting my ability to sup[port Clément in the Sista work. Note that we already have an ARM simulator and unfortunately Pharo can't run on that simulator either. Some way of making NB get out of the way except on x86 until it is portable would be much appreciated.
Eliot, I made NB optional in Pharo3… you should not have problems (from that side) to simulate the image. But I’m also willing to help in anything else that is needed. Just point me your problem and I will try to solve it :)
Esteban
Doing anything before that is just waste of time.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.
-- best, Eliot
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Esteban Lorenzano estebanlm@gmail.comwrote:
On 11 Feb 2014, at 20:08, Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Igor,
On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 7:16 AM, Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com wrote:
On 11 February 2014 10:56, Esteban Lorenzano estebanlm@gmail.com wrote:
PS. I am hacking on protobuf in Pharo 3.0 and noticed cool NB
assembler in some places - are such methods creeping into base libraries now? What does that mean for other CPUs? Sorry, for changing subject - feel free to reply under different subject.
Hi Goran,
Yes... since NB and Athens, there are some methods in assembler spread around. Is my opinion that all assembler-containing methods should be refactored into a more comprensible unit (and that can be changed by another set of assembly instrucction when we achieve multiplatform-NB). Today they are all along Athens, and if we continue this path they will be all along Pharo soon. I would better modularise that. But Igor maybe has something different to say :)
Esteban
not much to add to what i already been said:
- have any other CPU which can run pharo JIT? No? Will talk when it will
be available.
There's an unfortunate chicken-and-egg problem here. The way we develop a new platform with Cog is to build a simulator for the CPU and run the VM simulator above the CPU simulator. But, by making Pharo non-portable because NB only works on x86 you've made it extremely difficult to use a Pharo image to develop the new platform. That will be really important when x86-64 comes into the picture, which it shoudl sometime later this year. In fact its worse. Because there is no simulator support for NB I can't even start up a Pharo image on the current simulator and that's directly affecting my ability to sup[port Clément in the Sista work. Note that we already have an ARM simulator and unfortunately Pharo can't run on that simulator either. Some way of making NB get out of the way except on x86 until it is portable would be much appreciated.
Eliot, I made NB optional in Pharo3... you should not have problems (from that side) to simulate the image. But I'm also willing to help in anything else that is needed. Just point me your problem and I will try to solve it :)
thanks Esteban!
vm-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Eliot Miranda -
Esteban Lorenzano