Hi,
This is an announce for VM-dev and Squeak-dev list, Pharo-dev list is copy to keep people informed.
Last years I tried to keep a working version of the Mac builds of VM while at the same time trying to keep my job going. It was a hard work but I did my best. When I assumed the responsibility I said that my first task was going to be to automatize the builds and at the same time Igor was doing the same so I joined that effort. Since then the VM is buildable even by the not so good at VM level and I never seen the point in keeping the manual build or the non-smalltalk-generated configuration files. Nevertheless, I preferred to work on the new builds of Eliot than in the old interpreter and when keeping all working became more work that what I could manage, I choose to keep Stack and Cog VM working.
Maybe because of that, or because the animosity between communities, or because what I'm doing just does not match Squeak vision, or because since Eliot is providing regular builds mine are not needed, truth is that I've seen my work mostly ignored in squeak community and for some of the people in vm-dev list.
That's why I resign as a maintainer. I have a process that does not match squeak vision and is fair for squeak community to look for someone who does.
I have no bad feelings, I'm complete grateful to the community for give me the opportunity (specially to John, who thrusted me) and to all the rest.
I also know that there is great people both in vm-dev and in squeak-dev, but I cannot your mac-guy anymore (and I think this is obvious since ever).
And of course I will continue working in the pharo flavor of VM :)
Cheers, Esteban
Esteban,
Thank you very much for your contributions, and thank you also for clarifying your position. I know there is much more that you will be contributing to our community at large and I appreciate what you have done so far.
Dave
Hi,
This is an announce for VM-dev and Squeak-dev list, Pharo-dev list is copy to keep people informed.
Last years I tried to keep a working version of the Mac builds of VM while at the same time trying to keep my job going. It was a hard work but I did my best. When I assumed the responsibility I said that my first task was going to be to automatize the builds and at the same time Igor was doing the same so I joined that effort. Since then the VM is buildable even by the not so good at VM level and I never seen the point in keeping the manual build or the non-smalltalk-generated configuration files. Nevertheless, I preferred to work on the new builds of Eliot than in the old interpreter and when keeping all working became more work that what I could manage, I choose to keep Stack and Cog VM working.
Maybe because of that, or because the animosity between communities, or because what I'm doing just does not match Squeak vision, or because since Eliot is providing regular builds mine are not needed, truth is that I've seen my work mostly ignored in squeak community and for some of the people in vm-dev list.
That's why I resign as a maintainer. I have a process that does not match squeak vision and is fair for squeak community to look for someone who does.
I have no bad feelings, I'm complete grateful to the community for give me the opportunity (specially to John, who thrusted me) and to all the rest.
I also know that there is great people both in vm-dev and in squeak-dev, but I cannot your mac-guy anymore (and I think this is obvious since ever).
And of course I will continue working in the pharo flavor of VM :)
Cheers, Esteban
(CC squeak-dev, this concerns many people there too.)
Thanks Esteban, I know how this stuff goes.
So we're without a maintainer on the Macintosh platform, and I assume that also means iOS (where we're unwanted anyway, so no big loss there.)
I've been thinking about switching to Android anyway; at least if one buys the Google branded device, we can sideload Squeak and Etoys and Scratch. Unless Apple wants to step up... the obvious strategy is to walk away from them.
I use Macs, as a preference. Most of my life, warm fuzzy feelings about Macs. I'd like to keep Squeak working on Macs, so I can keep using Squeak. Unfortunately, I'm in a particular position wherein I can't make any guarantee about my availability. I have to find a job, and I don't know what this hypothetical job will allow me to do in the open source arena yet, or how many hours I'd be expected to work at the hypothetical job (and let's not shit ourselves, it's really mostly all of them every time.)
It doesn't help that the MagSafe (TM) jack on my laptop is failing. Since it doesn't have a replaceable battery, and I have trouble charging it, I can't even assure that I'd have a Mac to compile the thing on. Still: lots of people use Macs. John's VM has bells and whistles like you wouldn't believe, coming from other platforms. It's a work of art. I've used Squeak on all of the major platforms and I've got to say that the best experience _barre none_ has been on the Mac. John's platform logic.
Anyway I can't commit to anything right now, I really have to find a job, but as long as there's blood in my veins, a modern Mac in front of me, and time to try it, I'll see what I can do to keep us working on the Mac. But I recommend that no one depend on that as a promise, it isn't really, because if you read it clearly: it's a long shot for me at best.
Macintosh users: begin building VMs daily. *Now.* Let's keep this thing happening.
Casey
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 10:47 AM, David T. Lewis lewis@mail.msen.comwrote:
Esteban,
Thank you very much for your contributions, and thank you also for clarifying your position. I know there is much more that you will be contributing to our community at large and I appreciate what you have done so far.
Dave
Hi,
This is an announce for VM-dev and Squeak-dev list, Pharo-dev list is
copy
to keep people informed.
Last years I tried to keep a working version of the Mac builds of VM
while
at the same time trying to keep my job going. It was a hard work but I
did
my best. When I assumed the responsibility I said that my first task was going to be to automatize the builds and at the same time Igor was doing the same so I joined that effort. Since then the VM is buildable even by the not
so
good at VM level and I never seen the point in keeping the manual build
or
the non-smalltalk-generated configuration files. Nevertheless, I preferred to work on the new builds of Eliot than in the old interpreter and when keeping all working became more work that what I could manage, I choose to keep Stack and Cog VM working.
Maybe because of that, or because the animosity between communities, or because what I'm doing just does not match Squeak vision, or because
since
Eliot is providing regular builds mine are not needed, truth is that I've seen my work mostly ignored in squeak community and for some of the
people
in vm-dev list.
That's why I resign as a maintainer. I have a process that does not match squeak vision and is fair for squeak community to look for someone who does.
I have no bad feelings, I'm complete grateful to the community for give
me
the opportunity (specially to John, who thrusted me) and to all the
rest.
I also know that there is great people both in vm-dev and in squeak-dev, but I cannot your mac-guy anymore (and I think this is obvious since ever).
And of course I will continue working in the pharo flavor of VM :)
Cheers, Esteban
On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 01:01:12AM -0700, Casey Ransberger wrote:
(CC squeak-dev, this concerns many people there too.)
Thanks Esteban, I know how this stuff goes.
So we're without a maintainer on the Macintosh platform, and I assume that also means iOS (where we're unwanted anyway, so no big loss there.)
Just to be clear, most Squeak users on Mac are using the Cog VM that is provided by Eliot, and readers of the VM list will be aware that Eliot is extremely active in VM development lately (be sure to take a look at http://www.mirandabanda.org/cogblog/ if you have an interest in this area).
Esteban is also continuing his VM work in the areas of most interest to him, as he explained. I would encourage you to try Esteban's VM build with Squeak and see how it works. I don't have a Mac, but I am curious to know.
We do have shortfalls in our processes for updating the upstream trunk for the VM, and we have shortfalls in maintaining Mac and Windows platforms. These are not new issues, and it is clearly an area that we should improve. But don't be alarmed, the interpreter VM for Mac is no more or less outdated today than it was last week.
Dave
vm-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org