Hi, finally, after two months of suffering, thanks to John, I managed to fix a huge bug on cocoa cog vms that was showing up on latest cog and cog mt versions. Now, I think it is working pretty well, and with a good set of plugins:
internal plugins: #(#ADPCMCodecPlugin #BMPReadWriterPlugin #BalloonEnginePlugin #BitBltSimulation #ClipboardExtendedPlugin #DSAPlugin #DeflatePlugin #DropPlugin #FFTPlugin #FilePlugin #FloatArrayPlugin #GeniePlugin #HostWindowPlugin #JPEGReadWriter2Plugin #JPEGReaderPlugin #KlattSynthesizerPlugin #LargeIntegersPlugin #Matrix2x3Plugin #MiscPrimitivePlugin #RePlugin #SecurityPlugin #SocketPlugin #SoundCodecPlugin #SoundGenerationPlugin #SoundPlugin #StarSqueakPlugin #SurfacePlugin)
external plugins: #(#ThreadedIA32FFIPlugin #IA32ABIPlugin #UUIDPlugin #FloatMathPlugin #AsynchFilePlugin #SerialPlugin #Mpeg3Plugin #CroquetPlugin #JoystickTabletPlugin #MIDIPlugin #B3DAcceleratorPlugin #LocalePlugin)
I want to release a stable Cocoa VM version by this month, so I'm looking for some guys who can test it and provide me some feedback, in case something is wrong. So... please, use it! :)
cheers, Esteban
Hi, finally, after two months of suffering, thanks to John, I managed to fix a huge bug on cocoa cog vms
can you tell us a bit more about it?
internal plugins: #(#ADPCMCodecPlugin #BMPReadWriterPlugin #BalloonEnginePlugin #BitBltSimulation #ClipboardExtendedPlugin #DSAPlugin #DeflatePlugin #DropPlugin #FFTPlugin #FilePlugin #FloatArrayPlugin #GeniePlugin #HostWindowPlugin #JPEGReadWriter2Plugin #JPEGReaderPlugin #KlattSynthesizerPlugin #LargeIntegersPlugin #Matrix2x3Plugin #MiscPrimitivePlugin #RePlugin #SecurityPlugin #SocketPlugin #SoundCodecPlugin #SoundGenerationPlugin #SoundPlugin #StarSqueakPlugin #SurfacePlugin)
external plugins: #(#ThreadedIA32FFIPlugin #IA32ABIPlugin #UUIDPlugin #FloatMathPlugin #AsynchFilePlugin #SerialPlugin #Mpeg3Plugin #CroquetPlugin #JoystickTabletPlugin #MIDIPlugin #B3DAcceleratorPlugin #LocalePlugin)
I want to release a stable Cocoa VM version by this month, so I'm looking for some guys who can test it and provide me some feedback, in case something is wrong. So... please, use it! :)
where can we find it?
cheers, Esteban
On 19 May 2011 09:12, stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, finally, after two months of suffering, thanks to John, I managed to fix a huge bug on cocoa cog vms
can you tell us a bit more about it?
internal plugins: #(#ADPCMCodecPlugin #BMPReadWriterPlugin #BalloonEnginePlugin #BitBltSimulation #ClipboardExtendedPlugin #DSAPlugin #DeflatePlugin #DropPlugin #FFTPlugin #FilePlugin #FloatArrayPlugin #GeniePlugin #HostWindowPlugin #JPEGReadWriter2Plugin #JPEGReaderPlugin #KlattSynthesizerPlugin #LargeIntegersPlugin #Matrix2x3Plugin #MiscPrimitivePlugin #RePlugin #SecurityPlugin #SocketPlugin #SoundCodecPlugin #SoundGenerationPlugin #SoundPlugin #StarSqueakPlugin #SurfacePlugin)
external plugins: #(#ThreadedIA32FFIPlugin #IA32ABIPlugin #UUIDPlugin #FloatMathPlugin #AsynchFilePlugin #SerialPlugin #Mpeg3Plugin #CroquetPlugin #JoystickTabletPlugin #MIDIPlugin #B3DAcceleratorPlugin #LocalePlugin)
I want to release a stable Cocoa VM version by this month, so I'm looking for some guys who can test it and provide me some feedback, in case something is wrong. So... please, use it! :)
where can we find it?
On Hudson, where else? :) But probably we could use some other place for stockpiling builds.
cheers, Esteban
Hi, yes... it is on hudson: https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/hudson/view/Cog/job/CogMT%20Mac%20Cocoa/
but when I declare a version as "stable" I will be copying it to squeakvm.org (just before the ANN :)
best, Esteban
El 19/05/2011, a las 4:18a.m., Igor Stasenko escribió:
On 19 May 2011 09:12, stephane ducasse stephane.ducasse@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, finally, after two months of suffering, thanks to John, I managed to fix a huge bug on cocoa cog vms
can you tell us a bit more about it?
internal plugins: #(#ADPCMCodecPlugin #BMPReadWriterPlugin #BalloonEnginePlugin #BitBltSimulation #ClipboardExtendedPlugin #DSAPlugin #DeflatePlugin #DropPlugin #FFTPlugin #FilePlugin #FloatArrayPlugin #GeniePlugin #HostWindowPlugin #JPEGReadWriter2Plugin #JPEGReaderPlugin #KlattSynthesizerPlugin #LargeIntegersPlugin #Matrix2x3Plugin #MiscPrimitivePlugin #RePlugin #SecurityPlugin #SocketPlugin #SoundCodecPlugin #SoundGenerationPlugin #SoundPlugin #StarSqueakPlugin #SurfacePlugin)
external plugins: #(#ThreadedIA32FFIPlugin #IA32ABIPlugin #UUIDPlugin #FloatMathPlugin #AsynchFilePlugin #SerialPlugin #Mpeg3Plugin #CroquetPlugin #JoystickTabletPlugin #MIDIPlugin #B3DAcceleratorPlugin #LocalePlugin)
I want to release a stable Cocoa VM version by this month, so I'm looking for some guys who can test it and provide me some feedback, in case something is wrong. So... please, use it! :)
where can we find it?
On Hudson, where else? :) But probably we could use some other place for stockpiling builds.
cheers, Esteban
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
release a stable Cocoa VM version by this month, so I'm looking for some guys who can test it and provide me some feedback, in case something is wrong. So... please, use it! :)
Thanks Esteban! A few questions: * if I open and save an image with Cog, will I still be able to run it with the interpreter VM? * I noticed several plugins which I use often - OSProcess, OSA (Applescript), Quicktime, FFI, and ObjectiveC - not listed; are there plans to eventually include these?
Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3541... Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hi Sean, you can re-open a cog saved image with 5.4.7.1... otherwise, you are doom :) about the plugins:
1) ffi is present, but not it is called different (anyway, if you call listLoadedModules after an FFI execution, you will read "SqueakFFIPrims"... is just the name of the class who changed) 2) I can add OSProcess and ObjectiveC without any problem (in fact OSProcess is working, I don't know why I didn't included before) 3) Quicktime... I will try :) 4) OSA... I don't know what is that :)
cheers, Esteban
El 21/05/2011, a las 4:14p.m., Sean P. DeNigris escribió:
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
release a stable Cocoa VM version by this month, so I'm looking for some guys who can test it and provide me some feedback, in case something is wrong. So... please, use it! :)
Thanks Esteban! A few questions:
- if I open and save an image with Cog, will I still be able to run it with
the interpreter VM?
- I noticed several plugins which I use often - OSProcess, OSA
(Applescript), Quicktime, FFI, and ObjectiveC - not listed; are there plans to eventually include these?
Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3541... Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
you can re-open a cog saved image with 5.4.7.1... otherwise, you are doom :)
So I could start with Cog and revert to using 5.4.7.1 if I ran into a problem? What is the status of 5.4.7.1 - is it all-around superior to 4.2.5? I'm only still using 4.2.5 because 5.4.7.1 also didn't seem to have most of the plugins that I use (my copy only seems to have OSProcess).
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
- I can add OSProcess and ObjectiveC without any problem (in fact
OSProcess is working, I don't know why I didn't included before)
Cool, with those I could start using Cog for much of my development...
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
- Quicktime... I will try :)
- OSA... I don't know what is that :)
These would be great. OSA is Mac's Open Scripting Architecture, which is used by the Applescript project (which I use a lot in my personal images). Maybe I can help porting. I started watching Mariano's VM screencast. Is that the best starting point?
Thanks again. Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3541... Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Esteban, i tried to use CogMTVM
and results are not so good. Image hangs after running a while.
Maybe its because, i tried to enable multithreading by setting Smalltalk processHasThreadIdInstVar: true.
In total, when running this VM i got 1 crash and 2 hangs.
@All: Its okay, since they are new.. but we need to test better those VMs, if we want to use them in future.
On 22 May 2011 05:03, Sean P. DeNigris sean@clipperadams.com wrote:
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
you can re-open a cog saved image with 5.4.7.1... otherwise, you are doom :)
So I could start with Cog and revert to using 5.4.7.1 if I ran into a problem? What is the status of 5.4.7.1 - is it all-around superior to 4.2.5? I'm only still using 4.2.5 because 5.4.7.1 also didn't seem to have most of the plugins that I use (my copy only seems to have OSProcess).
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
- I can add OSProcess and ObjectiveC without any problem (in fact
OSProcess is working, I don't know why I didn't included before)
Cool, with those I could start using Cog for much of my development...
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
- Quicktime... I will try :)
- OSA... I don't know what is that :)
These would be great. OSA is Mac's Open Scripting Architecture, which is used by the Applescript project (which I use a lot in my personal images). Maybe I can help porting. I started watching Mariano's VM screencast. Is that the best starting point?
Thanks again. Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3541... Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Igor Stasenko siguctua@gmail.com wrote:
Esteban, i tried to use CogMTVM
and results are not so good. Image hangs after running a while.
The hangs was what indeed he solved with John last week. So....or you are using an old VM (or the changes were not commited) or the bug is still there or it is a new bug.
Maybe its because, i tried to enable multithreading by setting Smalltalk processHasThreadIdInstVar: true.
In total, when running this VM i got 1 crash and 2 hangs.
@All: Its okay, since they are new.. but we need to test better those VMs, if we want to use them in future.
That's test is exactly what Esteban was asking.
On 22 May 2011 05:03, Sean P. DeNigris sean@clipperadams.com wrote:
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
you can re-open a cog saved image with 5.4.7.1... otherwise, you are
doom
:)
So I could start with Cog and revert to using 5.4.7.1 if I ran into a problem? What is the status of 5.4.7.1 - is it all-around superior to
4.2.5?
I'm only still using 4.2.5 because 5.4.7.1 also didn't seem to have most
of
the plugins that I use (my copy only seems to have OSProcess).
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
- I can add OSProcess and ObjectiveC without any problem (in fact
OSProcess is working, I don't know why I didn't included before)
Cool, with those I could start using Cog for much of my development...
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
- Quicktime... I will try :)
- OSA... I don't know what is that :)
These would be great. OSA is Mac's Open Scripting Architecture, which is used by the Applescript project (which I use a lot in my personal
images).
Maybe I can help porting. I started watching Mariano's VM screencast. Is that the best starting point?
Thanks again. Sean
-- View this message in context:
http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3541...
Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
Hi Igor, did you use latest compiled vm? as far a I see, your problem looks like the one John and I fixed. But... I did not try it with threadid enabled, I will test it awhile to see what happens there.
cheers, Esteban
El 22/05/2011, a las 7:16a.m., Igor Stasenko escribió:
Esteban, i tried to use CogMTVM
and results are not so good. Image hangs after running a while.
Maybe its because, i tried to enable multithreading by setting Smalltalk processHasThreadIdInstVar: true.
In total, when running this VM i got 1 crash and 2 hangs.
@All: Its okay, since they are new.. but we need to test better those VMs, if we want to use them in future.
On 22 May 2011 05:03, Sean P. DeNigris sean@clipperadams.com wrote:
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
you can re-open a cog saved image with 5.4.7.1... otherwise, you are doom :)
So I could start with Cog and revert to using 5.4.7.1 if I ran into a problem? What is the status of 5.4.7.1 - is it all-around superior to 4.2.5? I'm only still using 4.2.5 because 5.4.7.1 also didn't seem to have most of the plugins that I use (my copy only seems to have OSProcess).
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
- I can add OSProcess and ObjectiveC without any problem (in fact
OSProcess is working, I don't know why I didn't included before)
Cool, with those I could start using Cog for much of my development...
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
- Quicktime... I will try :)
- OSA... I don't know what is that :)
These would be great. OSA is Mac's Open Scripting Architecture, which is used by the Applescript project (which I use a lot in my personal images). Maybe I can help porting. I started watching Mariano's VM screencast. Is that the best starting point?
Thanks again. Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3541... Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
On 24 May 2011 14:56, Esteban Lorenzano estebanlm@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Igor, did you use latest compiled vm?
well, i think yes.
as far a I see, your problem looks like the one John and I fixed. But... I did not try it with threadid enabled, I will test it awhile to see what happens there.
yes. try it. I am not sure if it hangs/crashing because i enabled it. It could be that it hangs even without enabling this flag.
cheers, Esteban
El 22/05/2011, a las 7:16a.m., Igor Stasenko escribió:
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 5:03 AM, Sean P. DeNigris sean@clipperadams.comwrote:
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
you can re-open a cog saved image with 5.4.7.1... otherwise, you are doom :)
So I could start with Cog and revert to using 5.4.7.1 if I ran into a problem?
Yes
What is the status of 5.4.7.1 - is it all-around superior to 4.2.5? I'm only still using 4.2.5 because 5.4.7.1 also didn't seem to have most of the plugins that I use (my copy only seems to have OSProcess).
Be careful because for example in 5.4.7.1 I cannot use FFI.
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
- I can add OSProcess and ObjectiveC without any problem (in fact
OSProcess is working, I don't know why I didn't included before)
Cool, with those I could start using Cog for much of my development...
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
- Quicktime... I will try :)
- OSA... I don't know what is that :)
These would be great. OSA is Mac's Open Scripting Architecture, which is used by the Applescript project (which I use a lot in my personal images). Maybe I can help porting. I started watching Mariano's VM screencast. Is that the best starting point?
Thanks again. Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3541... Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Be careful because for example in 5.4.7.1 I cannot use FFI.
Are there plans to build all the plugins for 5.4.7.1? If so, what is the timeline, if any?
Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3542... Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Sean P. DeNigris sean@clipperadams.comwrote:
Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Be careful because for example in 5.4.7.1 I cannot use FFI.
Are there plans to build all the plugins for 5.4.7.1? If so, what is the timeline, if any?
I have no idea. But I admit I would like a cococa VM with latest plugins working also with non-cog. So...having a 5.4.7.2 with new plugins and latest VMMaker would be cool.
We should ask Esteban.
Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3542... Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Yes... it will. Timeline? "sometime soon" :) (sorry, I'm on my phone, I can't answer with more detail now. Tomorrow I'll explain better)
El 22/05/2011, a las 1:32p.m., Mariano Martinez Peck escribió:
On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Sean P. DeNigris sean@clipperadams.com wrote:
Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
Be careful because for example in 5.4.7.1 I cannot use FFI.
Are there plans to build all the plugins for 5.4.7.1? If so, what is the timeline, if any?
I have no idea. But I admit I would like a cococa VM with latest plugins working also with non-cog. So...having a 5.4.7.2 with new plugins and latest VMMaker would be cool.
We should ask Esteban.
Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3542... Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
-- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com
Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
Yes... it will. Timeline? "sometime soon" :) (sorry, I'm on my phone, I can't answer with more detail now. Tomorrow I'll explain better)
Okay thanks. Also, now that Cog is around, will the interpreter VM stick around indefinitely, or just until Cog is stable / widely adopted? IOW why wouldn't everyone just start using Cog?
Sean
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/looking-for-feedback-on-Cocoa-Cog-MT-VM-tp3534230p3542... Sent from the Squeak VM mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On 22.05.2011, at 22:22, Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
Also, now that Cog is around, will the interpreter VM stick around indefinitely, or just until Cog is stable / widely adopted?
I expect the interpreter to stick around, but see less use as time progresses.
IOW why wouldn't everyone just start using Cog?
Cog cannot run old images. The current VM can still run Squeak 1.1 images. Some images are in production use for many years, there is no reason to change them.
Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work.
- Bert -
On 22 May 2011 22:42, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
On 22.05.2011, at 22:22, Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
Also, now that Cog is around, will the interpreter VM stick around indefinitely, or just until Cog is stable / widely adopted?
I expect the interpreter to stick around, but see less use as time progresses.
IOW why wouldn't everyone just start using Cog?
Cog cannot run old images. The current VM can still run Squeak 1.1 images. Some images are in production use for many years, there is no reason to change them.
Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work.
Yes. And some platforms not allow to run JIT software, so stack vm is the only choice there.
- Bert -
Hi,
Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work.
this is not completely true, IMHO. As I saw, platform dependent code between interpreter, stack and cog is exactly the same, so I don't see a reason why stack can't replace interpreter in all non jit-compliant platforms (like iOS).
What is definitively true, is the fact that there are a lot of machines who needs to use a 4.x series (in mac versions), and a lot of legacy code who will be using this "old" vm too... and because of this, 4.x series will be around a long time. What I think it will be disappearing, before than the 4.x series is the 5.x series: this is "old" interpreter vm with cocoa platform code. Why? just because this emerging is more or less coexisting with cog/stack vms, and right now the unique use I can found for this is that the latest version (5.7.4.1) can open a cog saved image. So, people will use it while cog/stack vms are in "stabilization" phase, but right after that, I see no reason to keep it (if I'm wrong at this, please let me know). I any case, I will be releasing 5.x series with plugins compiled, etc., as my timeline says, "sometime soon", and I will be releasing updated versions time to time :)
cheers, Esteban
On 24.05.2011, at 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
Hi,
Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work.
this is not completely true, IMHO.
Which part is "not completely true"?
- Bert -
On 24.05.2011 15:17, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 24.05.2011, at 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
Hi,
Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work.
this is not completely true, IMHO.
Which part is "not completely true"?
- Bert -
I'd guess the general statement "more complex VMs are harder to port". Like you both noted, while absolute complexity is higher, porting Stack and Interpreter VM's isn't much different from the platform point of view. Cog is an entirely different beast of course :)
Cheers, Henry
yes, that :)
El 24/05/2011, a las 10:23a.m., Henrik Sperre Johansen escribió:
On 24.05.2011 15:17, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 24.05.2011, at 15:09, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
Hi,
Also, more complex VMs are harder to port to other systems. Cog is more complex than the Stack VM, which is more complex than the Interpreter VM. E.g. there is no ARM port of Cog yet, whereas Stack and Interpreter VMs do work.
this is not completely true, IMHO.
Which part is "not completely true"?
- Bert -
I'd guess the general statement "more complex VMs are harder to port". Like you both noted, while absolute complexity is higher, porting Stack and Interpreter VM's isn't much different from the platform point of view. Cog is an entirely different beast of course :)
Cheers, Henry
vm-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Henrik Sperre Johansen -
Igor Stasenko -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Sean P. DeNigris -
stephane ducasse