You can also ask in VM mailing list. I cc'ed them.
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 4:52 AM, Jimmie Houchin jlhouchin@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Sorry for the delay in reply. For some reason the first time I looked at your message in my newsreader (Thunderbird/GMane) the message was in French and written to someone else. Apparently the software did something strange.
To answer your question. Yes. I tried this in both the standard vm and the standard Pharo 1.1 image.
I start the vm/image with -memory: 1000 and open a new Workspace, then copy the below memory settings and doit. I then do a := Array new: 100000000.
That seemingly succeeds but only takes me up to a little below 500mb ram. If I attempt to do another array of another 100,000,000 objects, I get the Low Space error.
With the standard vm and image, it just sits there consuming cpu with simply doing the array initialization. I am on a quad core server with 6gm ram and it has currently consumed over 36 cpu minutes of one of the cores. At this point I quit the image. I could do things in the UI but it is not very responsive.
In the Cog vm/image, the array creation returns almost immediately and waits for other instructions.
As I write this I have to go back to Squeak 3.7.1vm and either the 3.8 or 3.10 image, for it to be successful. Outside of that I can't get past 500mb of ram. This server generally sits at only using 30% of ram.
For enterprise/business endeavors, I thing Pharo really needs to be able to use all the memory the OS will allow it. I know that it being a 32 bit app does create some limits on some OSes. But neither of my Vista machines imposes a limit that I can't live with at the moment.
Thanks for your reply. I am neither a vm nor Smalltalk expert so I don't know how to proceed from here outside of reducing my applications memory needs by putting more into the database and only having the data in memory that is absolutely necessary for the analysis I am attempting.
Jimmie
On 9/1/2010 4:48 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
do you have the same problem with the normal VM?
On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
Hello,
I am developing an application which processes and generates a large amount of data. In a recent attempt I encountered an Space is Low error.
This is occurring in a Pharo 1.1 image using the latest Pharo and Cog VMs. I am opening the vm with the -memory: 1000 parameter. The below code I have applied the from the Squeak list from the 100 Million Objects thread. But the problem occurs at about 500mb of ram on a computer with 3 (or 6) gb of ram, with only 65% of physical ram in use. The os is Vista.
Any help in using more memory, as much as necessary for the app, would be greatly appreciated.
initializeMemorySettings "Initialize the memory and GC settings to be more in line with QF requirements"
"The following settings affect the rate incremental GCs and tenuring"
"Limit incremental GC activity to run every 40k allocations" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 5 put: 40000. "allocations between GCs (default: 4000)" "Limit tenuring threshold to only tenure w/> 10k survivors" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 6 put: 10000. "tenuring threshold (default: 2000)"
"These settings affect overall memory usage"
"Only give memory back to the OS when we have more than 16MB free" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 24 put: 16*1024*1024. "default 8MB" "Try to keep 8MB headroom at all times" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 25 put: 8*1024*1024. "default 4MB" "These settings describe what to do when we're close to running out of free space"
"Tell the VM that we'd rather grow than spinning in tight GC loops" SmalltalkImage current gcBiasToGrow: true. "default: false" "Tell the VM to do a fullGC for good measure if the above growth exceeded 16MB" SmalltalkImage current gcBiasToGrowLimit: 16*1024*1024. "default: 0"
Thanks,
Jimmie Houchin
Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
There is indeed a hard limit of 512MB in the Windows VM currently in effect, which is the result of debugging some extremely strange effects when loading DLLs. What we found was that on some systems, under some circumstances (related to memory load etc) DLLs would not be loaded if we'd reserve more than 512MB of memory leading the application either to not start at all, or to cause weird effects at later points etc.
Cheers, - Andreas
On 9/4/2010 2:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
You can also ask in VM mailing list. I cc'ed them.
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 4:52 AM, Jimmie Houchin <jlhouchin@gmail.com mailto:jlhouchin@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello, Sorry for the delay in reply. For some reason the first time I looked at your message in my newsreader (Thunderbird/GMane) the message was in French and written to someone else. Apparently the software did something strange. To answer your question. Yes. I tried this in both the standard vm and the standard Pharo 1.1 image. I start the vm/image with -memory: 1000 and open a new Workspace, then copy the below memory settings and doit. I then do a := Array new: 100000000. That seemingly succeeds but only takes me up to a little below 500mb ram. If I attempt to do another array of another 100,000,000 objects, I get the Low Space error. With the standard vm and image, it just sits there consuming cpu with simply doing the array initialization. I am on a quad core server with 6gm ram and it has currently consumed over 36 cpu minutes of one of the cores. At this point I quit the image. I could do things in the UI but it is not very responsive. In the Cog vm/image, the array creation returns almost immediately and waits for other instructions. As I write this I have to go back to Squeak 3.7.1vm and either the 3.8 or 3.10 image, for it to be successful. Outside of that I can't get past 500mb of ram. This server generally sits at only using 30% of ram. For enterprise/business endeavors, I thing Pharo really needs to be able to use all the memory the OS will allow it. I know that it being a 32 bit app does create some limits on some OSes. But neither of my Vista machines imposes a limit that I can't live with at the moment. Thanks for your reply. I am neither a vm nor Smalltalk expert so I don't know how to proceed from here outside of reducing my applications memory needs by putting more into the database and only having the data in memory that is absolutely necessary for the analysis I am attempting. Jimmie On 9/1/2010 4:48 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: do you have the same problem with the normal VM? On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Jimmie Houchin wrote: Hello, I am developing an application which processes and generates a large amount of data. In a recent attempt I encountered an Space is Low error. This is occurring in a Pharo 1.1 image using the latest Pharo and Cog VMs. I am opening the vm with the -memory: 1000 parameter. The below code I have applied the from the Squeak list from the 100 Million Objects thread. But the problem occurs at about 500mb of ram on a computer with 3 (or 6) gb of ram, with only 65% of physical ram in use. The os is Vista. Any help in using more memory, as much as necessary for the app, would be greatly appreciated. initializeMemorySettings "Initialize the memory and GC settings to be more in line with QF requirements" "The following settings affect the rate incremental GCs and tenuring" "Limit incremental GC activity to run every 40k allocations" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 5 put: 40000. "allocations between GCs (default: 4000)" "Limit tenuring threshold to only tenure w/> 10k survivors" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 6 put: 10000. "tenuring threshold (default: 2000)" "These settings affect overall memory usage" "Only give memory back to the OS when we have more than 16MB free" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 24 put: 16*1024*1024. "default 8MB" "Try to keep 8MB headroom at all times" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 25 put: 8*1024*1024. "default 4MB" "These settings describe what to do when we're close to running out of free space" "Tell the VM that we'd rather grow than spinning in tight GC loops" SmalltalkImage current gcBiasToGrow: true. "default: false" "Tell the VM to do a fullGC for good measure if the above growth exceeded 16MB" SmalltalkImage current gcBiasToGrowLimit: 16*1024*1024. "default: 0" Thanks, Jimmie Houchin _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr <mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr <mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
On 9/4/2010 2:28 PM, Andreas Raab wrote:
There is indeed a hard limit of 512MB in the Windows VM currently in effect, which is the result of debugging some extremely strange effects when loading DLLs. What we found was that on some systems, under some circumstances (related to memory load etc) DLLs would not be loaded if we'd reserve more than 512MB of memory leading the application either to not start at all, or to cause weird effects at later points etc.
Cheers,
- Andreas
Thanks Andreas for the explanation. When I re-read the 100 Million Objects thread, you mentioned that limit but I thought that you had removed it. Which may be why the 3.7.1 vm with the 3.8 image went up to 800+ mb of ram. But then it started acting strange.
Unfortunately I have to interface with Windows COM libraries for business reasons. So currently Windows is required. Later I hope to upgrade to using the Java libraries which would release me from Windows and allow me to use Linux or OS X. Presently I am using Python to interface the COM libraries and then communicate with Squeak/Pharo via http.
Since I know I have a hard limit, I'll quit trying to get it to work. :)
Thanks again.
Jimmie Houchin
On 9/4/2010 2:14 AM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:
You can also ask in VM mailing list. I cc'ed them.
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 4:52 AM, Jimmie Houchin jlhouchin@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
Sorry for the delay in reply. For some reason the first time I looked at your message in my newsreader (Thunderbird/GMane) the message was in French and written to someone else. Apparently the software did something strange.
To answer your question. Yes. I tried this in both the standard vm and the standard Pharo 1.1 image.
I start the vm/image with -memory: 1000 and open a new Workspace, then copy the below memory settings and doit. I then do a := Array new: 100000000.
That seemingly succeeds but only takes me up to a little below 500mb ram. If I attempt to do another array of another 100,000,000 objects, I get the Low Space error.
With the standard vm and image, it just sits there consuming cpu with simply doing the array initialization. I am on a quad core server with 6gm ram and it has currently consumed over 36 cpu minutes of one of the cores. At this point I quit the image. I could do things in the UI but it is not very responsive.
In the Cog vm/image, the array creation returns almost immediately and waits for other instructions.
As I write this I have to go back to Squeak 3.7.1vm and either the 3.8 or 3.10 image, for it to be successful. Outside of that I can't get past 500mb of ram. This server generally sits at only using 30% of ram.
For enterprise/business endeavors, I thing Pharo really needs to be able to use all the memory the OS will allow it. I know that it being a 32 bit app does create some limits on some OSes. But neither of my Vista machines imposes a limit that I can't live with at the moment.
Thanks for your reply. I am neither a vm nor Smalltalk expert so I don't know how to proceed from here outside of reducing my applications memory needs by putting more into the database and only having the data in memory that is absolutely necessary for the analysis I am attempting.
Jimmie
On 9/1/2010 4:48 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:
do you have the same problem with the normal VM?
On Sep 1, 2010, at 5:25 AM, Jimmie Houchin wrote:
Hello,
I am developing an application which processes and generates a large amount of data. In a recent attempt I encountered an Space is Low error.
This is occurring in a Pharo 1.1 image using the latest Pharo and Cog VMs. I am opening the vm with the -memory: 1000 parameter. The below code I have applied the from the Squeak list from the 100 Million Objects thread. But the problem occurs at about 500mb of ram on a computer with 3 (or 6) gb of ram, with only 65% of physical ram in use. The os is Vista.
Any help in using more memory, as much as necessary for the app, would be greatly appreciated.
initializeMemorySettings "Initialize the memory and GC settings to be more in line with QF requirements"
"The following settings affect the rate incremental GCs and tenuring"
"Limit incremental GC activity to run every 40k allocations" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 5 put: 40000. "allocations between GCs (default: 4000)" "Limit tenuring threshold to only tenure w/> 10k survivors" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 6 put: 10000. "tenuring threshold (default: 2000)"
"These settings affect overall memory usage"
"Only give memory back to the OS when we have more than 16MB free" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 24 put: 16*1024*1024. "default 8MB" "Try to keep 8MB headroom at all times" SmalltalkImage current vmParameterAt: 25 put: 8*1024*1024. "default 4MB" "These settings describe what to do when we're close to running out of free space"
"Tell the VM that we'd rather grow than spinning in tight GC loops" SmalltalkImage current gcBiasToGrow: true. "default: false" "Tell the VM to do a fullGC for good measure if the above growth exceeded 16MB" SmalltalkImage current gcBiasToGrowLimit: 16*1024*1024. "default: 0"
Thanks,
Jimmie Houchin
Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
At Sat, 04 Sep 2010 12:28:43 -0700, Andreas Raab wrote:
There is indeed a hard limit of 512MB in the Windows VM currently in effect, which is the result of debugging some extremely strange effects when loading DLLs. What we found was that on some systems, under some circumstances (related to memory load etc) DLLs would not be loaded if we'd reserve more than 512MB of memory leading the application either to not start at all, or to cause weird effects at later points etc.
Oh, I did not know this was related in this way... However, I just had an interesting case. We have a VM plugin, which basically just reads some parts of memory and writes into other parts of memory (so no platform dependency). It was working fine but stopped working on Windows with 3.11.8 VM when I did Windows Update (on Sept. 2nd). It turned out that the static memory "allocation" in DLL may fail under some circumstances.
The plugin had a line that reads:
static char mem[5000000]; /* a buffer of 5MB */
and apparently this was the culprit. When I change it to be a pointer and allocate the memory with malloc() in initialiseModule(), the plugin started working again.
-- Yoshiki
vm-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Andreas Raab -
Jimmie Houchin -
Mariano Martinez Peck -
Yoshiki Ohshima