Squeak-dev August 2005

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157 participants
234 discussions

Re: LookEnhancements enhancement
by Chris Muller 04 Aug '05

04 Aug '05

> The actual mail that lead to this discussion was from Philippe whose > intention was to give feedback and suggestions to further improve > LookEnhancements. Unfortunately, and I think that's almost a pattern > in this community, this lead to a discussion which is not > constructive. It can be interesting to argue about those things of > course, but often it does not get us forward. It would have been > helpful to either argue for or against why the "o" icon of Squeak is > more intuitive than for example the "-" of OS X and make real > suggestions how to improve the current look. > So, anybody having good ideas for the windows icons, or is the > current situation just that good that we can't improve? I'm guilty of non-constructiveness in my prior rant. Sorry everybody. I have a question about the window icons. For the "inverteBright" feature, I tried to create inverted copies (i.e., white) of the window icons but was only successful with one of them, the close-box icon. DisplayMedium>>#reverse didn't seem to work, nor did mapColor: Color black to: Color white for the others. I'm guessing it has something to do with the depth? I just don't know; even with depth 2 it seems like it should work. If we do change the icons, can anything be done to allow them be inverted when inverteBright is selected? I actually haven't heard one feedback about inverteBright. What does anyone think? I like it, but is this something that anyone else cares about?

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RE: LookEnhancements enhancement
by Ramon Leon 04 Aug '05

04 Aug '05

I just go to SqueakMap and load Win32 Native Fonts package, replaces all squeaks fonts. That's about the extent of my font knowledge. I use Verdana 12 for just about everything. > -----Original Message----- > From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On > Behalf Of Chris Muller > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:50 AM > To: Squeak List > Subject: RE: LookEnhancements enhancement > > > Your LookEnhancements is on of the > > first packages I load, along with native windows fonts. > > Ramon, I've experimented with true-types that come w/ Windows > to see if I could use them, but had trouble with > carriage-returns displaying as a square and.. > maybe a couple of other formatting issues or something. > > Perhaps it was the particular fonts I tried, Verdana and Arial, IIRC.. > > You seem to be having better success than I, can you give me a tip? > > >

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[BUG] SmaCC does not install on 3.8.6Beta6
by Thomas A Petersen 04 Aug '05

04 Aug '05

I had fits with this until I realized that Refactoring Browser had to be installed properly. Here's what I did Define AbstractString := String. "in a workspace, define global" Load Rafactoring Browser for 3.8, 3.8.40 The later version may not need the AbstractString hack. Then load Smacc Development 1.4 and you should have better luck. I did this in a 3.8 6665 image. Hope this helps, tap

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TactaPad - redux
by David Faught 04 Aug '05

04 Aug '05

This one IS available, although it's a bit pricey! I believe that green crayon emulation is available, but you'll have to provide the sleazy spacer bar coordinates yourself! http://www.cycling74.com/products/lemur.html Tim Rowledge wrote: David Faught <dave_faught at yahoo.com> wrote: > This is a very interesting input device! It looks like it's not > available now though. Too bad! That _is_ interesting. Looks a bit small though, I rather suspect it twists ones elbows inwards quite a bit, like a too-small keyboard. Nice concept for making full use of two hands. I could see delegating one finger to pointer and having some others triggering menus (like middle and right button) and in suitable apps you could use chording quite naturally. Not to mention playing actual chords. The general idea would be a nice replacement for the too-small trackpads on most laptops. I wonder if it works reasonably for keyboard input? Perhaps for occasional use, like entering a few words in a graphics oriented world. Probably not so good for typing a novel though. Not that I've actually done that. My novels are all written in green crayon in sleazy spacers bars. :-) ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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[Q] Canvas
by Matej Kosik 04 Aug '05

04 Aug '05

In `onDraw:' method it is possible paint things on the canvas. Is it possible to erase (i.e. to make transparent) already drawn parts of canvas? I did not find out how. Such mechanism would be useful also. I have been playing around a little bit: Silly things: http://altair.dcs.elf.stuba.sk/wiki/Kosik/Glyphs Imagine a black square. Then imagine that you cut out a (smaller) circle from its middle so that you can see through that hole. Is it possible to write `drawOn:' which does that? It does not sound very complicated task, but I wasn't able to figure out how to accomplish it. I am really curious. Regards -- mk

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RE: LookEnhancements enhancement
by Ramon Leon 04 Aug '05

04 Aug '05

> > > Actually, it is. It's not unreasonable to say that almost "all" > > computers run windows. Windows has over 90% of the market, so most > > people will feel that windows style is more intuitive because it's > > what they're used too, that doesn't mean it's better, but > it is more > > intuitive. > > Actually it isn't. What you are really saying is its more > "familiar". It is certainly not more intuitive. > > It wasn't until Win95 that Microsoft added the ambiguous "X" > to the upper-right but kept their legacy left-side > "window-menu" to this day. This ambiguity is less-intuitive. > > Squeak is a leader, not a follower, so lets not dumb it down > to "follow" > Microsoft's mistake of ten years ago, especially just before > Microsoft releases "Looooonghorn" (say it correctly, with > that cowboy accent) which may have an entirely different look > itself; which would prove to the "masses" forced to accept it > that, once again, Microsoft is a "leader" in user-interface design. > > > The real question is what's the goal of LookEnhancements, > if it's to > > make squeak prettier to make it more popular, then it needs > to try and > > look more like windows, plain and simple, because that's the target > > market, that's where "most" programmers are. If the goal > is to look > > cool, then make it look like Mac, it's much prettier, but > that isn't > > where the programmers are. > > Programmers don't need Squeak to look like Windows. > End-users using Word and Excel in corporations or Grandma who > got a Dell pre-bloaded w/ Microsoft stuff for Christmas using > Outlook and IE, *may* feel more comfortable with basic > window-operations in Squeak were they to use it. > > But how long before these type of users, in Squeak and > suddenly away from their sprawling two-dimensional > spreadsheets and 100' long Word scrolls, feel uncomfortable > with Squeak anyway, which doesn't do any of those things as > well (rightly so). > > Merely giving them icons for *window-management* that look > like MS Windows is so insufficient that, in fact, it is > probably misleading. In other words, it is very quickly > *counter-intuitive* because they may be initially fooled into > the Windows mindset, but quickly discover that nothing else > works the way they expect. Hey, chill out, I wasn't defending Windows, or Saying squeak should look like Windows. I said if the goal was to attract more programmers, that it wasn't a bad idea to look more like windows, "if that was the goal". No one is a blank slate except kids, sit any other adult user down to play with a UI, and what's intuitive will depend on what they already know, and most know windows. Familiar and intuitive aren't exactly unrelated concepts, and frankly, Windows looks vastly better than Squeak. I love Sqeak as a programmer, but it's UI isn't exactly trend setting, it needs improvement, Squeak isn't leading anything in this arena imho, it's got some catch up to do.

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Squeak Chat Sunday August 7th 21:00 GMT
by Ken Causey 04 Aug '05

04 Aug '05

Just a reminder that the next Squeak Chat will take place between 21:00 (9 PM) GMT Sunday August 7th and 01:00 (1 AM) GMT Monday August 8th, 2005. As usual we will meet in #squeak on irc.freenode.net. More information about the #squeak IRC channel can be found at http://people.squeakfoundation.org/article/7.html This is a good time to contribute to the development of Squeak by participating in the Harvesting Process. One of the main ways to contribute is by Reviewing submitted fixes and enhancements. For information about the Harvesting Process see http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/3152 If you have the time please attend and work toward the future of Squeak. The next seven chats are scheduled for 01:00 (01:00 AM) GMT Friday August 12, 2005 05:00 (05:00 AM) GMT Tuesday August 16, 2005 09:00 (09:00 AM) GMT Saturday August 20, 2005 13:00 (01:00 PM) GMT Wednesday August 24, 2005 17:00 (05:00 PM) GMT Sunday August 28, 2005 21:00 (09:00 PM) GMT Thursday September 01, 2005 01:00 (01:00 AM) GMT Tuesday September 06, 2005

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SVG and Cairo
by Josh Gargus 04 Aug '05

04 Aug '05

Hi, I've heard whisperings that someone is working on Cairo support for Squeak. How is this progressing? Could it be used as a rendering back-end for SVG, instead of Balloon? Just curious, Josh

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[Squeak] questions about interactive data entry
by Michael Minge 03 Aug '05

03 Aug '05

Dear Squeak community! My task is to design a simpilified animation of a mobilphone by using Squeak. The task menu of the dummy works yet fine. I have several special questions about interactive entry of data, which the user should feed into my dummy (like writing a SMS or storing a cellphone number...) 1) how can I let delete one single character (like the last accepted one) in button animated text fields by using button scripts/animations? 2) how can I let assign several characters (like m, n, o) to one single button? My idea is to accept the first character of the series if the button is clicked for the first time; if the same button is clicked once again immediately, the cursor of the text field should go back one step, delete the last character of the line an "overwrite" it with the second character of the series an so on - until a time limit of no interaction is recognised which fixes the data. how could I design such a prodecure by using Squeak? 3) how to change the type of characters (button animated text fields), so that new data is using this type? My idea was to change the main type by changing the "default text fonts". This turned out well for all inscriptions, instead of new button animated entry of characters into the related text field, mhh. If anyone knowed helpful devices, I would be glad about a mail! Thanks very much! michael

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RE: LookEnhancements enhancement
by Ramon Leon 03 Aug '05

03 Aug '05

Same in windows, but that is not multiple monitor support, maximizing a windows in sqeak would then stretch it across both screens. Squeak needs to be "aware" that there are multiple monitors. > -----Original Message----- > From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On > Behalf Of Ken G. Brown(w) > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 11:13 AM > To: 'The general-purpose Squeak developers list' > Subject: RE: LookEnhancements enhancement > > On the Mac, existing multiple monitor support allows the main > Squeak window to be expanded to cover both monitors. Not sure > if selecting full screen will do this by itself. I am not at > my Mac at the moment but can try tonight. > Ken > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On > > Behalf Of Ramon Leon > > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 11:20 AM > <snip> > > > > So if you really see Squeak as an OS, a view I share, > > what's it going to > > take to get multiple monitor support so full screen is > actually full > > screen and I'm not stuck on one screen with windows on the > > other? I'm > > guessing that's in the VM and is a much bigger task than > just a look > > enhancement, just curious? > > > > >

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