Squeak-dev August 2005

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157 participants
234 discussions

RE: code-formatter for Squeak?
by Ramon Leon 03 Aug '05

03 Aug '05

Shift + right click > pretty print. > -----Original Message----- > From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On > Behalf Of Chris Muller > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 10:01 AM > To: Squeak List > Subject: code-formatter for Squeak? > > > Thank you, so nice to have indenting back. > > Yes, indenting is nice, but even nicer is auto-formatting. > Back in VisualAge I used to use a code-formatting tool that > would format the current method merely by pressing cmd+w. It > became a habit to just quickly type a method, completely > ignoring the formatting and, when done, just press cmd+w+s. > Very productive! > > There were even formatting preferences to accomodate > "procedural" or "rectangular block" format tastes.. > > Unfortunately, I have not found a similar feature for Squeak. > > >

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RE: LookEnhancements enhancement
by Ramon Leon 03 Aug '05

03 Aug '05

> As the primary developer (of late) of LookEnhancements both I > and Ben Schroeder (original developer) have shared a common > simple goal with Look Enhancements. Goal -> "Let's make > Squeak more enjoyable to use by making it look better". To > quote Donald Norman: "Attractive things work better" > (http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/CH01.pdf) and I believe Mr. Norman > very much so. > > I can also state what our goal is not. It has not been (to > date) to model a specific platform look and feel. We > certainly have been influenced by various design elements of > Mac OS and Windows and have integrated them where we saw fit. > Maybe Squeak OS should be the next trend setter on look and > feel for others to clone / copy? Maybe our Look Enhancements > aren't the full embodiment of that goal, but I feel we should > set our sites higher than Windows or Mac OS (just a thought) > and not be afraid to diverge when it makes for a more elegant > and attractive interface. Certainly we have a long way to go. > > For the moment I plan on continuing down the path of our goal > stated above. > > Regards, > > John Hey, I think you guys are doing a great job, no complaints at all, just wondering what the goal actually was, nice to know. Personally, anything that makes Squeak look more like an adult platform and less like something for kids to play with, I'm all behind. I want to see Squeak taken seriously as a development platform, and it's current default UI makes that impossible. Your LookEnhancements is on of the first packages I load, along with native windows fonts. So if you really see Squeak as an OS, a view I share, what's it going to take to get multiple monitor support so full screen is actually full screen and I'm not stuck on one screen with windows on the other? I'm guessing that's in the VM and is a much bigger task than just a look enhancement, just curious?

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RE: LookEnhancements enhancement
by Chris Muller 03 Aug '05

03 Aug '05

> Actually, it is. It's not unreasonable to say that almost "all" > computers run windows. Windows has over 90% of the market, so most > people will feel that windows style is more intuitive because it's what > they're used too, that doesn't mean it's better, but it is more > intuitive. Actually it isn't. What you are really saying is its more "familiar". It is certainly not more intuitive. It wasn't until Win95 that Microsoft added the ambiguous "X" to the upper-right but kept their legacy left-side "window-menu" to this day. This ambiguity is less-intuitive. Squeak is a leader, not a follower, so lets not dumb it down to "follow" Microsoft's mistake of ten years ago, especially just before Microsoft releases "Looooonghorn" (say it correctly, with that cowboy accent) which may have an entirely different look itself; which would prove to the "masses" forced to accept it that, once again, Microsoft is a "leader" in user-interface design. > The real question is what's the goal of LookEnhancements, if it's to > make squeak prettier to make it more popular, then it needs to try and > look more like windows, plain and simple, because that's the target > market, that's where "most" programmers are. If the goal is to look > cool, then make it look like Mac, it's much prettier, but that isn't > where the programmers are. Programmers don't need Squeak to look like Windows. End-users using Word and Excel in corporations or Grandma who got a Dell pre-bloaded w/ Microsoft stuff for Christmas using Outlook and IE, *may* feel more comfortable with basic window-operations in Squeak were they to use it. But how long before these type of users, in Squeak and suddenly away from their sprawling two-dimensional spreadsheets and 100' long Word scrolls, feel uncomfortable with Squeak anyway, which doesn't do any of those things as well (rightly so). Merely giving them icons for *window-management* that look like MS Windows is so insufficient that, in fact, it is probably misleading. In other words, it is very quickly *counter-intuitive* because they may be initially fooled into the Windows mindset, but quickly discover that nothing else works the way they expect.

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code-formatter for Squeak?
by Chris Muller 03 Aug '05

03 Aug '05

> Thank you, so nice to have indenting back. Yes, indenting is nice, but even nicer is auto-formatting. Back in VisualAge I used to use a code-formatting tool that would format the current method merely by pressing cmd+w. It became a habit to just quickly type a method, completely ignoring the formatting and, when done, just press cmd+w+s. Very productive! There were even formatting preferences to accomodate "procedural" or "rectangular block" format tastes.. Unfortunately, I have not found a similar feature for Squeak.

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RE : set and stream
by Chris Muller 03 Aug '05

03 Aug '05

Houssam, concatenation of Sets using #, cannot be faster than using #addAll: because #, (concatenation) uses #addAll: to do its work. (Set with: 'a1') halt , (Set with: 'a2') Step into the #, to see this. > I can't see how I can decide between #addAll and #nextPutAll in case of > sets? As you previously mentioned, you cannot create a WriteStream on a Set. WriteStream only works with SequenceableCollections. The #nextPutAll: example (the last script) does not add anything to a Set. It concatenates Arrays.. - Chris

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RE: LookEnhancements enhancement
by Ramon Leon 03 Aug '05

03 Aug '05

> On 2-Aug-05, at 11:20 AM, Philippe Marschall wrote: > > - It might be a good idea to rethink the position and icons of the > > window icons. I don't find it very intuitive how it's done > right now, > > and I'm not alone with that. Perhaps do it more like > Windows, both in > > terms of icons (hyphen, caret, X) and position (all on the right, > > minize, maximize, close). > > There simply isn't any such thing as 'intuitive' here. Left, > right, middle, X or red-blob, it's not intuitive. It might be > _intuitable_ once you've been given a decent clue. If you're lucky. > > The fact that Windows does it some way is not a reason to > make Squeak do it that way, any more than copying OSX is "the > right way". A simple, logical set of controls, with an Actually, it is. It's not unreasonable to say that almost "all" computers run windows. Windows has over 90% of the market, so most people will feel that windows style is more intuitive because it's what they're used too, that doesn't mean it's better, but it is more intuitive. > understandable way of acting and icons that are not too ugly > is the best approach. If people do have strong attachment to > their platforms way of doing things then someone with time Windows is not "their" platform, it's almost "everyones" platform, like it not, that is reality. > and interest needs to work on a framework to handle that. If > you're _really_ into platform furniture, start making use of > the Areithfa Ffenestri code to provide platform windows (and > potentially, menus). The real question is what's the goal of LookEnhancements, if it's to make squeak prettier to make it more popular, then it needs to try and look more like windows, plain and simple, because that's the target market, that's where "most" programmers are. If the goal is to look cool, then make it look like Mac, it's much prettier, but that isn't where the programmers are.

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RE: Re[2]: LookEnhancements enhancement
by Ramon Leon 02 Aug '05

02 Aug '05

> No doubt and I'm sure Tim doesn't argue against this but it > does not mean people like it and don't want any changes in > usability or the look. This is not an OS discussion. Which is why I questioned the goal of the enhancements, I love what's been done so far, but without a specific goal in mind, one can argue endlessly about what should or shouldn't be. > Win can easily be tweaked quite a bit and especially > programmers do that a lot so it would be hard to even define > the target market. Agreed, my XP PC looks like a Mac, but you can only tweak windows so far, and it still feels like windows.

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New Squeak Site
by Frank Caggiano 02 Aug '05

02 Aug '05

A link added to the download page linking to the Errata page on the swiki would probably be a good idea. regards ------------------------ Frank Caggiano frankcag at crystal-objects dot com http://www.crystal-objects.com The best education for the best is the best education for all. Robert Maynard Hutchins

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[BUG][FIX] Character>>sameAs: missing in 3.8
by Ragnar Hojland Espinosa 02 Aug '05

02 Aug '05

It is used by Rexeg. Try evaluating the following for a MNU. 'a' matchesRegexIgnoringCase: 'a' which I guess can be fixed in the Regex package, or in Character (since there's already a String>>sameAs:) Character>>sameAs: aChar sameAs: aCharacter "Answer whether the receiver is equal to aCharacter, ignoring case" ^ (self asLowercase = aCharacter asLowercase) -- Ragnar Hojland - Project Manager Linalco "Specialists in Linux and Free Software" http://www.linalco.com Tel: +34-91-4561700

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Re: LookEnhancements enhancement
by John Pierce 02 Aug '05

02 Aug '05

Hi Chris, I don't think I will be making the call on whether my (and Ben's) LookEnhancements will go into 3.9. There was some interest in that topic a month ago or so, but it seems to have died down. I pretty much don't care if it isn't included since I will just keep maintaining the enhancements and applying to future editions of squeak as an add-on. I would certainly welcome the incorporation into Squeak, but then I might lose control over the enhancements if that happens. Anyways, if you are interested, I know the enhancements work in 3.9. I'll look over your proposed enhancements and consider them for inclusion in the code. Thanks for your nice words and proposed enhancements! Regards, John On 7/20/05, Chris Muller <chris(a)funkyobjects.org> wrote: > > Hello, I wanted to you let you I really like your LookEnhancements. Quite > gorgeous. Is this going into 3.9? > > I wanted to share an additional enhancement I made today. After loading > LookEnhancements 6-31 from SqueakMap, I added a new preference to windows > category called "inverteBright". It inverts the brightness, using white > text > on dark or black backgrounds. > > Here is a screenshot. > > http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/5729 > > Also note the other minor enhancement. The list-selections match the > textHighlightColor, even in the Explorer view.. > > When day returns, the normal bright view is mostly unaffected. Should you > wish > to download and try it out: > > > http://map1.squeakfoundation.org/sm/account/package/5c9346cf-9f4e-4b38-af2b… > > Would you be interested in absorbing this into LookEnhancements? > > Cheers, > Chris > -- It's easy to have a complicated idea. It's very very hard to have a simple idea. -- Carver Mead

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