Squeak-dev July 2001

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

168 participants
308 discussions

Re: 3.0 and 3.1 VMs for Unix
by Bruce ONeel 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

Hi, Thanks, this is up on the unix-linux area of the ftp site. cheers bruce Ian Piumarta <Ian.Piumarta(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Unix folks, > > Sorry for the delay since 3.0pre2. The latest (and I hope final) 3.0 is > in the usual place [1] with binaries for Linux PPC/386 (glibc 2.1.3) and > Solaris (2.5). These are also available by ftp [2] for those who prefer. > (No Alpha/OSF version this time, because somebody here broke the compiler > installation. No Linux version for Sparc either, because I didn't have the > patience to wait 30 minutes for an ancient SS2 to compile it all. If > anyone really cares about these then let me know and I'll go build a bunch > of VMs on antiquated and/or obscure platforms.) > > The sources for a 3.1a-4164pre1 VM are also in the same places for anyone > interested. (3.1a is currently missing some of the latest tweaks > collected by Lex and others, but at least some form of 3.1 is "out there" > now. Bear with me. OGL and other goodies will be folded in "Real Soon > Now".) > > FWIW: the 8bpp colour problem reported recently for VMs later than 2.8 was > real, and is now fixed (along with a few minor other things) in both 3.0 > and 3.1a. > > Enjoy! > > Ian > > [1] http://www-sor.inria.fr/~piumarta/squeak > > [2] ftp://ftp.inria.fr/INRIA/Projects/SOR/users/piumarta/squeak/ > Squeak-3.0-src.tar.gz > Squeak-3.0-ppc-unknown-linux-gnu.tar.gz > Squeak-3.0-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz > Squeak-3.0-sparc-sun-solaris2.5.tar.gz > Squeak-3.1a-4164pre1-src.tar.gz

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Re: Newbie Squeak on Mac
by Glenn S. Fisher 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

OK. I use a Wacom tablet, the problem was caused by those drivers. Intrigued by your mention of a more recent version of the Mac VM, I did some digging. I found on the UIUC server what appears to be the most recent version, 3.0.18. That has solved the problem with the Wacom drivers. Perhaps the link to the package that is available via the most obvious path to a newcomer, at squeak.org, should be updated. Thanks for the tip. Cheers, Glenn > Glenn, > > Then it sounds as if perhaps you have a conflict with some *other* > extension or control panel. Have you tried booting with extensions > off and seeing if the problem goes away? > > John McIntosh's VM change that purports to fix this kind of problem > arrived in the version he labeled "Squeak 3.0.11", dated April 8th. > I *believe* that this VM, or some successor, is available on the > public FTP sites. > > John's covering memo for 3.0.11 included the following paragraph: >> 1) Mouse clicks from foreground applications should not affect >> Squeak, even if the foreground window is floating. (Bob gets to test >> this). Issues with NAV should also be fixed (But I've not tested >> that, perhaps Scott can check this). > > HOWEVER note that 3.0Alpha8MT is dated February 2001 so it would > predate this change. Could it really be that 3.0Alpha8MT is the most > recent VM that's been made public? That would be hard to believe. > However, I have no personal experience downloading from public Squeak > servers. > > John: Does any of this ring any bells with you? > > Cheers, > > -- Scott > > > At 3:09 PM -0400 7/31/01, Glenn S. Fisher wrote: >> I'm not using NAV. I am using Virex, so I disabled that just for kicks and >> restarted. No difference. I just DL'd Squeak again, and it's the same as the >> one I got about a month ago. The VM appears to be Squeak 3.0Alpha8MT. I have >> both the image that came in that package, and the fully updated 3.1 image. >> They both behave the same way. For what it's worth I'm on a Mac G4 with OS >> 9.04. >> >> Thanks, >> Glenn >> >>> Glenn, >>> >>> This phenomenon has been seen when running older versions of the Mac >>> VM on systems that have the Norton Antivirus extension installed. >>> >>> I believe that recent Mac VM's claim not to have this problem >>> (starting, IIRC, with 3.0.11) though I've never actually heard >>> positive confirmation of this. >>> >>> For a start, try disabling the NAV extension (if you're using it) and >>> see if the problem goes away. Then try installing a newer version of >>> the VM, re-enable NAV, and see if all is well. >>> >>> Please let us know what you find out! >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> -- Scott >>> >>> >>> At 12:06 PM -0400 7/31/01, Glenn S. Fisher wrote: >>>> ... I'm working on a Mac and noticing a strange and >>>> annoying behavior. When I move another active application window >>>> in front of >>>> the Squeak window, the Squeak window remains active, sort of. Mouse >>>> movements and clicks pass through the active application window to the >>>> Squeak window and cause menus to open, items to be selected, etc. This >>>> doesn't happen if I remember to collapse the Squeak window, so there is a >>>> work around. It's just a little annoying. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Glenn S. Fisher >>>> CTO >>>> Websound, Inc. >>>> 802.254.3800 ext.202 >>>> gfisher(a)websound.com

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RE: So What Do We Call It? Was: Interactive Fiction
by G.J.Tielemans＠dinkel.utwente.nl 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

> My criticism was not directed to the functionality or social > utility of adding themes to simulations -- just to point out that what > simulations and games do with their story elements don't amount to storytelling. Sitting on the bedside of my children - years ago - one of their favorite storytelling-session was the democratic story: I started the story and they were allowed to change the details: Once upon a time there was a boy - no, a girl - OK, once upon a time there was a girl... They did like to change some details but did not want to get really control over the story-line, that would spoil their fun in listening. If the control of a storyteller is so important, would the introduction of the character of the stroyteller save the IF? > Poetics was not directed to the functionality of the works, > but rather to their efficacy in achieving that functionality -- the science > (classical sense) of writing. It is what makes a story catch our > breath, and makes it worthwhile the read. We aren't doing > much of that in role-playing games these days. Indeed, not much at all. > About the word interactive: Several years ago we filled a lecture-hall at our university with videoconference facilities en WWW-computers on every student-desk. We gave it the name "Interactive Classroom", for me a kind of joke about normal classrooms: they still should not be very interactive... There are only a few people who see this joke. For all the others "interactive" means "Doing things - in this case lectures - with the help of computers." Gallery of Interactiv geometry: http://www.geom.umn.edu/apps/gallery.html Interactiv library: http://www.axciom.fr/interactiva/biblio.asp Interactiv community: http://community.cnn.com/ Interactiv popstar-pictures?? http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/BritneyLand/germany.html Interactiv consultatnt: http://www.interactiv-lee.com/ Interactiv multimedia: http://www.interactiv.ru/new/index.html Interactiv map of MIT: http://whereis.mit.edu/ Interactiv citizin handbook: http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/ (Some of the hits of my search-engine on the word interactiv) It seems to be what we call in Holland a container-concept: anything fits in it, so the word becomes meaningless.. So, a better word for Interactiv Fiction. What do you want to express? Soemthing with a kind of story in it, so that word has to stay. The dream is that the reader can still change the story on the very very last moment... Extreme late story? no suggest something else. An other aspect is that if any user can change the story, it becomes unpredictable, fast moving, nimble, agile... Nimble Stories ? Agile Stories?

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[ENH] TwoModeButtonMorph appearance
by Joern Eyrich 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

this cs changes the TMBM's appearance so that when the mouse button is pressed, but the pointer is not over the button, the "unpressed" image is shown this parallels the behaviour that if you release the button while not over the morph, the button's action will not be triggered (at least in #buttonUp mode)

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Re: FFI broken ?
by Hannes Hirzel 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

Rob >I wish I could execute the 'Smalltalk listLoadedModules' after >executing the statement 'Win32Shell explore: 'C:\'' there is no >Squeak anymore: it crashes without warning or other message. I opened up a fresh 3.0 image (3.0 - 4 February 2000 - #3545) from the server and tried Win32Shell new shellOpen: 'C:\' It opens a Windows explorer. Win32Shell new shellOpen: 'winword.exe'. worked fine as well. (BTW OT: Why not use Squeak as a shell program which is started at boot time instead of the explorer and have a Squeak GUI with buttons for the necessary programs outside of Squeak.) A 'print-it' on Smalltalk listLoadedModules gives #('shell32.dll' 'SqueakFFIPrims 15 March 2001 (e)' 'B2DPlugin 15 March 2001 (i)' 'FloatArrayPlugin 15 March 2001 (i)' 'Matrix2x3Plugin 15 March 2001 (i)' 'BitBltPlugin 15 March 2001 (i)' 'LargeIntegers v1.2 15 March 2001 (i)' 'SecurityPlugin 15 March 2001 (i)' 'FilePlugin 15 March 2001 (i)' 'MiscPrimitivePlugin 15 March 2001 (i)') Hannes Hirzel P.S. An additional question (to anybody): I would like to do something like Win32Shell new runCommand: 'wordpad c:\temp\test.rtf'. But I don't know how to implement #runCommand. There are examples in Win32Shell how to do this kind of things. But I don't yet see the pattern.

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So What Do We Call It? Was: Interactive Fiction
by Laurence Rozier 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

In the context of the computer gaming industry as it exists today, Andrew's recent comments concerning interactive fiction are quite appropriate and valuable. However, simulation is broader than interactive gaming and storytelling is broader than closed structure models such as books and movies. Certainly understanding the consequences of modes of control is generally applicable, but who says control can't or shouldn't shift? Some, particularly the reader-response literary school of thought, would say that the storyteller is never completely in control. Janet Murray in Hamlet on the Holodeck takes this view. She uses the term "participatory narrative" which I prefer over interactive fiction but I don't think interactive fiction is an oxymoron any more than human-in-the-loop or other forms of "simulation" which mix real world inputs with simulated ones. Whether "simulation-with-a-bit-o-story", or "story-with-a-bit-o-simulation" as Andrew put it, this mixed thing exists and we have to call it something right? The drama Poetics describes the structure of was not "entertainment" in same sense we have drama today. It had a functional role. In The Art of the Long View, Peter Schwartz states: "Stories are an old way of organizing knowledge, but their place in the world has been less visible since the rise of scientific philosophy during the Enlightenment." Brenda Laurel, in Computers As Theater says "The Greeks employed drama and theatre as tools for thought, in much the same way that we employ computers today - or at least in the ways that we envision employing them in the not-too-distant future." Drama in its origins was very much a participartory form and I agree with many of the points made by Murray and Laurel. My Participant-Activity-Scenario-Stage(PASS) system(see Morphic Joules docs for a description) is a model-based development approach founded on the premise that object-oriented software systems consist of Participants that engage in the Activities of a Scenario which is played out on a Stage. Scenarios(paths thru a use case) are simulations which can benefit from storytelling. They seem like a form of participatory narrative to me but, perhaps there is no one single term that is appropriate. Do folks prefer one? Cheers, Laurence __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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Squeak
by Ivan Tomek 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

Hi Stephane, I have just returned after several weeks away and read that 'Disney is dropping Squeak'. Is it true? And if so, what happens to Squeak? Thanks. Ivan

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Microsoft removes Netscape support from IE; plug-in needs re-writing.
by Noel J. Bergman 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

The content, below, is from the IE 6 public newsgroup. It appears that Microsoft is dropping support for Netscape compatible plug-ins. Although none of the information below is coming directly from Microsoft, it is coming from plug-in authors who received the information from Microsoft. --- Noel "Andrew Nosenko" <captain(a)meadroid.com> wrote: > There is nothing confidential or obscured here, anybody can note that none of > Netscape-compatible plug-ins works with the latest IE6 Public Preview. > Netscape plug-in model is described here: > http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/communicator/plugin/basic.htm > It's been supported by Opera 4+, Netscape 3+ and IE3.0 - 6.0 PublicPrevew1. > IE6.0 PublicPrevew2 silently ignores them - sad but true. However, IE6.0 PublicPrevew2 > still supports <EMBED> tag, but for registered MIME Player ActiveX controls. > More info on MIME players: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/components/activex/registration.asp > http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q165/0/72.ASP > > -- > Regards, > Andrew Nosenko, > Mead & Co Limited. > ================== > Plug IE ActiveX into Netscape and Opera: > http://www.meadroid.com/neptune/ "Jerry Mead" <jerrym(a)meadroid.com> wrote: > We learned this as part of our discussions with Microsoft about our own > plug-in Neptune. > > But I doubt if it is specifically stated anywhere yet, and we probably > shouldn't be talking about it anyway. > > However it has been confirmed to us that IE's support for > Netscape-compatible plug-ins has gone away and won't be coming back. > > Support for the 'embed' tag remains for components that are built on ActiveX > technologies. > > Jerry > > Mead & Co Limited > "Ian Bartholomew" <news1(a)iandb.org.uk> wrote: > "Andrew Nosenko" <captain(a)ANTISPAM-meadroid.com> wrote: > > Microsoft has decided to deprecate Netscape-compatible plug-ins for IE6. > > There is no any sensible reason for that, but here we are. > > Have you got an online reference where that is stated please, and hopefully > which also gives details about what exactly is deprecated?. > > Ian

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Re: [FIX]CelesteOpenFix
by jhinsley＠telinco.co.uk 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

Many. many, thanks Steve. As you see (this Celeste was produced by Ned's script) it works just fine! Thanks again Cheers John

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RE: [OT] Interactive Fiction is an Oxymoron
by Jarvis, Robert P. (Contingent) 31 Jul '01

31 Jul '01

> -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew C. Greenberg [mailto:werdna@mucow.com] > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2001 5:58 PM > To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > Subject: Re: [OT] Interactive Fiction is an Oxymoron > > > > Forgive my display of cluelessness, but has Amazon sued > > someone over the One-Click patent? > > Amazon.com v. Barnes & Noble has been raging for more than a > year, now. Ah. So much for Jeff Bezos' statements about only using the One-Click patent as a measure to defend against lawsuits directed toward Amazon. Perhaps I'll see about getting a patent for respiration. But not to worry - I promise that I'll only use it if someone tries to cut off *my* air supply. :-) Bob "...holding my breath until I turn blue..." Jarvis Compuware @ Timken P.S. The Outlook spellchecker says that "Bezos" is misspelled, and suggests "bozos" as the replacement. :-)

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