The content, below, is from the IE 6 public newsgroup.
It appears that Microsoft is dropping support for Netscape compatible plug-ins. Although none of the information below is coming directly from Microsoft, it is coming from plug-in authors who received the information from Microsoft.
--- Noel
"Andrew Nosenko" captain@meadroid.com wrote:
There is nothing confidential or obscured here, anybody can note that none
of
Netscape-compatible plug-ins works with the latest IE6 Public Preview. Netscape plug-in model is described here: http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/communicator/plugin/basic.htm It's been supported by Opera 4+, Netscape 3+ and IE3.0 - 6.0
PublicPrevew1.
IE6.0 PublicPrevew2 silently ignores them - sad but true. However, IE6.0
PublicPrevew2
still supports <EMBED> tag, but for registered MIME Player ActiveX
controls.
More info on MIME players: http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/components/activex/registration.asp http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q165/0/72.ASP
-- Regards, Andrew Nosenko, Mead & Co Limited. ================== Plug IE ActiveX into Netscape and Opera: http://www.meadroid.com/neptune/
"Jerry Mead" jerrym@meadroid.com wrote:
We learned this as part of our discussions with Microsoft about our own plug-in Neptune.
But I doubt if it is specifically stated anywhere yet, and we probably shouldn't be talking about it anyway.
However it has been confirmed to us that IE's support for Netscape-compatible plug-ins has gone away and won't be coming back.
Support for the 'embed' tag remains for components that are built on
ActiveX
technologies.
Jerry
Mead & Co Limited
"Ian Bartholomew" news1@iandb.org.uk wrote: "Andrew Nosenko" captain@ANTISPAM-meadroid.com wrote:
Microsoft has decided to deprecate Netscape-compatible plug-ins for IE6. There is no any sensible reason for that, but here we are.
Have you got an online reference where that is stated please, and
hopefully
which also gives details about what exactly is deprecated?.
Ian
Don't be surprised. It's a from-the-ground-up re-thinking at Microsoft. With the security issues (as well as the legal issues raised by the resent break-up negotiations) and the upcoming push towards the .net paradigm, they really don't have much of a choice. All their press, buzz and inside mantra is towards this complete shift. The new C# CLI is much cleaner than C or C++ because there are no more &'s, ::'s or any of that stuff. BTW, the chief architect of C# is an avid SmallTalk programmer.
So shall we just keep our hopes that perhaps this "We are M$, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile" process may not be so painful? At least their lawyers will advice M$ on how to keep from being perceived as "monopolistic".
:-) edwin
P.S. - The best time to kill a snake is when it's shedding. If anyone has a big stick and a better (not even perfect) plan, why please speak up and tell me where to sign up.
-----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Noel J. Bergman Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:47 AM To: Squeak Mailing List Subject: Microsoft removes Netscape support from IE; plug-in needs re-writing.
The content, below, is from the IE 6 public newsgroup.
It appears that Microsoft is dropping support for Netscape compatible plug-ins. Although none of the information below is coming directly from Microsoft, it is coming from plug-in authors who received the information from Microsoft.
--- Noel
Noel,
Thanks for the info. I had a tiny little bit of hope that this may just be a beta thing. But I'm not surprised.
- Andreas
-----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Noel J. Bergman Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 10:47 AM To: Squeak Mailing List Subject: Microsoft removes Netscape support from IE; plug-in needs re-writing.
The content, below, is from the IE 6 public newsgroup.
It appears that Microsoft is dropping support for Netscape compatible plug-ins. Although none of the information below is coming directly from Microsoft, it is coming from plug-in authors who received the information
from Microsoft.
--- Noel
"Andrew Nosenko" captain@meadroid.com wrote:
There is nothing confidential or obscured here, anybody can
note that none of
Netscape-compatible plug-ins works with the latest IE6
Public Preview.
Netscape plug-in model is described here:
http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/communicator/plugin /basic.htm
It's been supported by Opera 4+, Netscape 3+ and IE3.0 - 6.0
PublicPrevew1.
IE6.0 PublicPrevew2 silently ignores them - sad but true.
However, IE6.0 PublicPrevew2
still supports <EMBED> tag, but for registered MIME Player ActiveX
controls.
More info on MIME players:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/workshop/components/activex/registration.asp
http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q165/0/72.ASP
-- Regards, Andrew Nosenko, Mead & Co Limited. ================== Plug IE ActiveX into Netscape and Opera: http://www.meadroid.com/neptune/
"Jerry Mead" jerrym@meadroid.com wrote:
We learned this as part of our discussions with Microsoft about our own plug-in Neptune.
But I doubt if it is specifically stated anywhere yet, and we probably shouldn't be talking about it anyway.
However it has been confirmed to us that IE's support for Netscape-compatible plug-ins has gone away and won't be coming back.
Support for the 'embed' tag remains for components that are built on
ActiveX
technologies.
Jerry
Mead & Co Limited
"Ian Bartholomew" news1@iandb.org.uk wrote: "Andrew Nosenko" captain@ANTISPAM-meadroid.com wrote:
Microsoft has decided to deprecate Netscape-compatible plug-ins for IE6. There is no any sensible reason for that, but here we are.
Have you got an online reference where that is stated please, and
hopefully
which also gives details about what exactly is deprecated?.
Ian
Noel,
Thanks for the info. I had a tiny little bit of hope that this may just be a beta thing. But I'm not surprised.
- Andreas
I'd be curious to know how this will impact the macintosh plugin, anyone know
On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, John M McIntosh wrote:
I'd be curious to know how this will impact the macintosh plugin, anyone know
Afraid not. I only know of the NS plugin API for the Mac. Don't all the Mac browsers (including Omni and iCab) use the NS API? Is there another Mac plugin API out there?
-Eric
on 25/7/01 9:59 pm, John M McIntosh at johnmci@smalltalkconsulting.com wrote:
Noel,
Thanks for the info. I had a tiny little bit of hope that this may just be a beta thing. But I'm not surprised.
- Andreas
I'd be curious to know how this will impact the macintosh plugin, anyone know
Very interesting question.
The IE source code for the Mac Edition is supposed to be radically different at all levels from the Windows versions (Even in areas where the code could be platform independent. It is reported to be a cleaner,better written code base as they started again essentially for the 5.0 Mac version).
It would be even more of a deliberate task to remove the NS plugin support and Ive seen no mention of .Net Support for the 5.1 Final release of IE on OSX. I also seem to remember reading something about MS not Intending to implement the full .Net architecture on the Mac.
So I would expect it will have no Impact on us short term but FY 2002 may be another story. The infamous five year deal between Apple and Microsoft to end their tangle of litigation cases finishes ( The one where MS bought $150 Million dollars of Apple stock in 1997 and agreed to produce Current Mac versions of Office etc for 5 years). At that point anything could happen !
Dropping the classic NS plugin API on Windows could be a great way for MS to squeeze the Mac and Netscape camps even further. I suspect Plugin writers are going to have enough of a job rewriting all their plugins to use the new MS way of things without having to have a second code base for the NS plugins for what many will see as a very small market segment. So many will just drop the NS API and go solely with the 90%+ Windows/IE people.
Just my $0.02+ Worth :-))))
Derek
Derek wrote:
So many will just drop the NS API and go solely with the 90%+ Windows/IE people.
That actually remains to be seen. Y'know the IE implementation of the NS plugin API was never fully up to date (look at the comments in the windows plugin and see why I hate browsers) but due to the varying browsers I just couldn't be bothered to write a separate ActiveX control. I *had* actually considered to write a "generic" ActiveX control that simply exports the Netscape API (there's not too much about it) but I never had the time to do so.
Now Microsoft has made sure that I'll have to deal with this freaking ActiveX stuff again. Makes me wonder ... wonder if there aren't any other people out there who are as annoyed as I am about the situation. Browsing through IEs "plugin" directory makes me feel that I may not be the only one. Apple (Quicktime), Corel (Xara), Cincom (VW) all use the NS plugin API exclusively. And last but not least, Netscape, Opera and other browser vendors on Windows should have an interest in this.
Makes me wonder ... if there aren't a bunch of guys out there who would join forces to write a free, open-source ActiveX/NSPlugin wrapper. Just for the benefit of mankind. I bet if I could find four or five experienced people who were willing to join that project we had it out and running in no time. Free for anyone who wishes to support IE "in addition to" other browsers.
Do you know any such people?
Cheers, - Andreas
On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:43:00AM -0700, Andreas Raab wrote: [snip]
Makes me wonder ... if there aren't a bunch of guys out there who would join forces to write a free, open-source ActiveX/NSPlugin wrapper. Just for the benefit of mankind. I bet if I could find four or five experienced people who were willing to join that project we had it out and running in no time. Free for anyone who wishes to support IE "in addition to" other browsers.
Do you know any such people?
Cheers,
- Andreas
Well, this isn't exactly what you're thinking of, but I believe a couple weeks ago the KDE team released a neat little hack that allows ActiveX controls to be used in Konqueror. I think it uses some unholy hack involving WINE to make it work, but nonetheless...
Check: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-07-10-003-20-PR-KE-MS
I imagine, at least on Linux, that this could be extended to work with Mozilla/Netscape/Opera.
Kevin Fisher wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 12:43:00AM -0700, Andreas Raab wrote: [snip]
Makes me wonder ... if there aren't a bunch of guys out there who would join forces to write a free, open-source ActiveX/NSPlugin wrapper. Just for the benefit of mankind. I bet if I could find four or five experienced people who were willing to join that project we had it out and running in no time. Free for anyone who wishes to support IE "in addition to" other browsers.
Do you know any such people?
Makes me wonder what would happen if no-one came to the Microsoft party. Instead of being prompted to download the IE plug-in, you'd be prompted to download Netscape and the plug-in. (Of course, you've got Netscape on some old magazine CD, somewhere.) Now, if folk wrote to Mr.Gates and told him that that was their intention......
Well, this isn't exactly what you're thinking of, but I believe a couple weeks ago the KDE team released a neat little hack that allows ActiveX controls to be used in Konqueror. I think it uses some unholy hack involving WINE to make it work, but nonetheless...
Check: http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-07-10-003-20-PR-KE-MS
I imagine, at least on Linux, that this could be extended to work with Mozilla/Netscape/Opera.
I'm not sure of how far it'll be taken, but there is a Windows port of Kde in progress. If that grows to include Konqueror (which now uses Netscape plugins) we could be approaching endgame.
Cheers
John
Unix folks,
Sorry for the delay since 3.0pre2. The latest (and I hope final) 3.0 is in the usual place [1] with binaries for Linux PPC/386 (glibc 2.1.3) and Solaris (2.5). These are also available by ftp [2] for those who prefer. (No Alpha/OSF version this time, because somebody here broke the compiler installation. No Linux version for Sparc either, because I didn't have the patience to wait 30 minutes for an ancient SS2 to compile it all. If anyone really cares about these then let me know and I'll go build a bunch of VMs on antiquated and/or obscure platforms.)
The sources for a 3.1a-4164pre1 VM are also in the same places for anyone interested. (3.1a is currently missing some of the latest tweaks collected by Lex and others, but at least some form of 3.1 is "out there" now. Bear with me. OGL and other goodies will be folded in "Real Soon Now".)
FWIW: the 8bpp colour problem reported recently for VMs later than 2.8 was real, and is now fixed (along with a few minor other things) in both 3.0 and 3.1a.
Enjoy!
Ian
[1] http://www-sor.inria.fr/~piumarta/squeak
[2] ftp://ftp.inria.fr/INRIA/Projects/SOR/users/piumarta/squeak/ Squeak-3.0-src.tar.gz Squeak-3.0-ppc-unknown-linux-gnu.tar.gz Squeak-3.0-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz Squeak-3.0-sparc-sun-solaris2.5.tar.gz Squeak-3.1a-4164pre1-src.tar.gz
Ian Piumarta wrote:
The sources for a 3.1a-4164pre1 VM are also in the same places for anyone interested.
I compiled the vm and it worked as expected. I ran into some problems trying to use self generated source files from an image and a different internal/external module ratio. Most of it had to do with missing include paths in the Makefile (if FilePlugin is external I had to insert $(gendir)/FilePlugin at various places) or references to other libraries (eg. -lffi for the external FFIPlugin). But it is a nice base to play with. Which I did when I thought what might be the cheapest way to gain some performance. I thought it might be a good idea to use the latest compiler which has a special configuration for my processor. After it turned out that the vm compiled with the newer compiler was slower than the original one I went the other way around and used an older compiler. So and this are the results of the amazed jury:
'54794520 bytecodes/sec; 1623491 sends/sec' "gcc272 -m486 -O3" '41994750 bytecodes/sec; 1424725 sends/sec' "gcc-2.95 -march=i686 -O3" '41157556 bytecodes/sec; 1225389 sends/sec' "gcc-2.95 (default)" '37058482 bytecodes/sec; 1287986 sends/sec' "gcc-3.00" '36467236 bytecodes/sec; 1232651 sends/sec' "gcc-3.00 -march=athlon"
It might be nothing new for the natural kernel hacker, but I was quite surprised by this.
Alex
PS: Athlon 600 (Linux 2.4.5)
I compiled the vm and it worked as expected. I ran into some problems trying to use self generated source files from an image and a different internal/external module ratio. Most of it had to do with missing include paths in the Makefile (if FilePlugin is external I had to insert $(gendir)/FilePlugin at various places) or references to other libraries (eg. -lffi for the external FFIPlugin).
Did you start with a new build directory and run "configure" again?
I keep thinking this should be cleaned up, but then I think that we should switch to Tim's VM maker and end up working on other things.
'54794520 bytecodes/sec; 1623491 sends/sec' "gcc272 -m486 -O3" '41994750 bytecodes/sec; 1424725 sends/sec' "gcc-2.95 -march=i686 -O3" '41157556 bytecodes/sec; 1225389 sends/sec' "gcc-2.95 (default)" '37058482 bytecodes/sec; 1287986 sends/sec' "gcc-3.00" '36467236 bytecodes/sec; 1232651 sends/sec' "gcc-3.00 -march=athlon"
That is pretty wild. Did you try gcc-3.00 with -O3, as well? (I think the default is -O2, right?)
-lex
Lex Spoon wrote:
Did you start with a new build directory and run "configure" again?
I basically did a (cd build; rm -rf *; ../src/unix/configure) everytime.
I keep thinking this should be cleaned up, but then I think that we should switch to Tim's VM maker and end up working on other things.
'54794520 bytecodes/sec; 1623491 sends/sec' "gcc272 -m486 -O3" '41994750 bytecodes/sec; 1424725 sends/sec' "gcc-2.95 -march=i686 -O3" '41157556 bytecodes/sec; 1225389 sends/sec' "gcc-2.95 (default)" '37058482 bytecodes/sec; 1287986 sends/sec' "gcc-3.00" '36467236 bytecodes/sec; 1232651 sends/sec' "gcc-3.00 -march=athlon"
That is pretty wild. Did you try gcc-3.00 with -O3, as well? (I think the default is -O2, right?)
As far as I rember I did not, but I will when I have a look at Tim's VM maker. Without any -O,-O1,-O2,-O3 option gcc (3.00) is not optimizing at all.
Now I found a benchmark test with similiar results on the web. http://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2001-06/msg00422.html
Alex
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Alexander Lazarevic -
Andreas Raab -
Derek Hadlington -
Edwin Pilobello -
Eric Scharff -
Ian Piumarta -
John Hinsley -
John M McIntosh -
Kevin Fisher -
Lex Spoon -
Noel J. Bergman