On Fri, 29 Mar 2002, David Chase wrote:
It doesn't suck enough to make a difference, and too many times people have declared that "thus-and-such-sucks" for that simple assertion to convince anyone.
It sucks enough to make a difference to some people, like myself, who don't use it. If it didn't suck, I would use it.
I agree about the "thus-and-such-sucks," business, but I'm not trying to convince anyone. I was agreeing. If the context were different, perhaps trying to convince a professor let me use Smalltalk on a project rather than Java, or answering one of the "Why Smalltalk over Java?" threads in comp.lang.smalltalk, I would've been obliged to back up that statement, if I wanted anyone to take my assertion seriously. But I'm not here to convince anyone to use Squeak over Java- if they want to know why they should, I imagine they would start a thread. (has anyone else noticed the remarkable lack of Squeak vs. XXX-lang on the list?)
Remember, people aren't comparing Java to Squeak (or ML, or Haskell) -- they're comparing it to C++. In that comparison, Java looks pretty good.
On a Smalltalk list, I imagine they would be comparing Java to Smalltalk. In a lot of ways, they are similar in methodology, and have similar strengths. Java over C++ advocacy on a Smalltalk list would be a wee bit [OT]. :)
If you want to convince someone, you have got to put a little more work into your argument, and think a bit about your audience.
In the context of the list, why? A lot of those on this list have a general idea why we would think that Java sucks. Those of us who agree all have our overlapping reasons. My audience here isn't hardcore C++ coders.
So, to get to the point, you should either quit whinging about how much Java sucks and how misguided Apple is, or you should do something about it. And YOU should do something about it; I also want to become more proficient in ML and Haskell, and I will pursue whichever learning curve is gentlest.
What would you propose? I use Squeak in the real world, where non-squeakers see my apps. I've written a couple small Mac apps with it that other people use. I don't think trying to advocate to Apple would do much good.
Like Bijan, I would say go with Haskell. Just generally made more sense to me, but YMMV. :)
David Chase (who usually just reads this list)
Regards, Aaron (who spends more time answering questions on #squeak than replying here)
Aaron Reichow :: UMD ACM Pres :: http://www.d.umn.edu/~reic0024/ "A weed is just a plant whose virtures have not yet been discovered." :: r. w. emerson