Squeak-dev February 2008

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159 participants
219 discussions

Que queremos que sea Squeak/What we wish Squeak become
by Edgar J. De Cleene 03 Feb '08

03 Feb '08

Gente / People: (this mail is in SqueakRos style of talk) Colin es nuestro nuevo miembro. Colin is now our new member. No deseo darle mas trabajo y que tenga que traducir o al Rosarino o al Inglés. I don't wish overload he and he should translate all . Rosarino is Spanish compatible like Squeak is ST80 :=) Ayer se realizo la primera conferencia sobre como queremos que sea el próximo Squeak. Yesterday we have the first meeting about how we wish the next Squeak version. Traits or not Traits that is the question :=) Y esta el tema de como realizar los updates. And the subject of how doing the updates. En este momento , tanto Monticello 2 como DeltaStreams no están listos para producción. At this time , MC2 and DS are not production ready. Lo unico probado es usar los viejos change sets. So the only wise is doing old change sets. Y tener algo en paralelo o con DS o con MC2. And do parallel with DS or MC2 . Colin and Matthew say both could be in same image, so we see. El próximo meeting es en dos semanas. Next meeting is in two weeks. Que hacemos mientras tanto ? What we do in the time ? Abrazo a los muchachos y besos a las chicas. Hogs to buddies and kisses to ladies. Edgar

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News Team Report Jan 2008
by Ron Teitelbaum 03 Feb '08

03 Feb '08

Hello all and welcome to Leap Month, This is your News Team report for January 2008 We had 15,645 hits in Jan. This is half what we had last month but we didn't have any really cool pictures from Craig to post http://news.squeak.org/2007/12/29/old-smalltalk-pics-from-parc . What's funny is that those pictures are linked from a lot of places and this month we still had 1545 hits. We had 10 articles posted in January. If you would like to volunteer and help write articles for the Weekly Squeak please let me know. We could use your help!! Thanks, Ron Teitelbaum Squeak News Team Leader

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To prepare 3.9.1
by stephane ducasse 02 Feb '08

02 Feb '08

Hi all some people asked if we could produce 3.9.1. Here is their list of suggested items: "We use the following three fixes that are crucial for any server setup: 0006581: Image freezes (background processes like Seaside make no progress) and Squeak hoggs CPU This is the image freezing problem, where connecting with VNC and moving the mouse would bring the image alive again. When being stuck, Squeak hoggs the CPU, memory consumtion is stable. http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6581 Note: fix takes only effect if Preferences enable: #serverMode ! -------- 0006588: Broken Semaphore>>critical: leads to frozen processes in Delay VNC doesn't respond to UI events, 0% cpu usage, several processes frozen in Delay although our Seaside server still responds. http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6588 -------- 0006576: Delay is not thread-safe Delay is not thread-safe since currently the calling process updates the internal Delay structure itself. If the process gets terminated while doing this (e.g., adding/removing from SuspendedDelays) the whole system is left in an inconsistent state and breaks. http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6576 -------- 0006524: TTFonts can't load unicode character maps - http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6524 -------- Font caching http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6089 Something else, that would be good to change is to remove OmniBrowser. There are two reasons why I've done this manually for the base image of our build process: - with the old version of OmniBrowser installed the newer version cannot be loaded automatically with Monticello (If I remember correctly because there packages have been moved or renamed) - for production we need small images (a few MBs per image can make a significant difference when running hundreds of images) Now tell me if some others are important for us. I was thinking that Nebraska and Speech could be removed too. So let me know I will try to do my best to produce 3.9.1 Stef

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Open meeting regarding the Squeak Release Team
by Matthew Fulmer 02 Feb '08

02 Feb '08

Edgar J. De Cleene, Keith Hodges, and I are going to hold a meeting on Skype this Saturday at 1600 UTC. We want to discuss what the next release process should look like, and would welcome input, especially if you are willing to help or have a tool that could help us with the release effort. On the agenda is: The main agenda items are: - How to maintain communication within the release team, and with the wider community - Keith's Level Playing Field - Pavel's Kernel Image / Minimal Morphic - What to do about the update stream and the MC packages that 3.9 and 3.10 releases produced Secondary agenda items are: - Monticello 2 status - DeltaStreams status We most likely will not discuss specific changes/bug fixes that would be managed by the release team. The meeting is more an attempt to get some coherency into the release process, since there are now a few different directions the release team could go in. We welcome your input. I will record and post the meeting discussions -- Matthew Fulmer -- http://mtfulmer.wordpress.com/ Help improve Squeak Documentation: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/808

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Canvas architecture
by Michael van der Gulik 02 Feb '08

02 Feb '08

On Feb 1, 2008 7:21 AM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 31/01/2008, Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)freudenbergs.de> wrote: > > > I am beginning to understand your point :) Yes, having that power in > > the base system would be cool. I still think it can be implemented on > > latest-gen OpenGL hardware (which can do the non-linear transform and > > adaptively tesselate curves to pixel resolution) but that then would > > be just an optimization. > > > > What i'm against, is to bind rendering subsystem to specific hardware. > There should be a layer, which should offer a rendering services to > application, and number of layers to deliver graphics to device(s). > In perfect, it should be able to render itself using any device: > screen or printer or remote (networked) canvas. > There also can be a different options in what a rendering media is: > it's wrong to assume that rendering surface is planar (it can be a 3D > holo-projector, for instance). > What is hard, is to design such system to be fast and optimal and > still be generic enough to be able to render anywhere. > For the holo-projector example, you need "architecture". For example, consider this ASCII-art layered architecture for a GUI: Application | ToolBuilder / \ 2-D Widgets 3-D Widgets | | Canvas OpenGL or something | BitBlt, Cairo, etc. Of course, there's a lot more to it. I believe (and I'm putting words in Juan's mouth here) that Morphic 3 is primarily a 2-D GUI. In terms of hardware support, the Canvas class (currently used by Morphic for drawing everything) needs to be rethought. I've got a preliminary brain dump here: http://gulik.pbwiki.com/Canvas. Morphic 2 (i.e. in Squeak now) isn't very smart about how it draws stuff; it's very slow. BitBlt is capable of a lot more. Also, the underlying layers of architecture (BitBlt particularly) aren't smart about rendering. The X Windows implementation of Squeak for example (AFAIK) only uses a single bit-mapped "window". The X Window system can do a lot more, such as vectored graphics and multiple windows. I suspect that the VNC implementation doesn't cache bitmaps on the client, although this is pure speculation. I would change Canvas by: - Allowing a canvas to have movable sub-canvases. These would map 1:1 to "windows" (i.e. drawable areas without borders, title bars) in the X window system, or cached bitmaps in VNC, or display lists / textures in OpenGL. These could be moved around the screen easily by only changing the location of the sub-canvas. - Canvases could be implemented as bitmaps or vectored graphics/display lists; the application doesn't need to know what implementation is actually used. - Introduce a "needsRedraw" system of some sort. A Canvas implementation may or may not cache its contents (as a bitmap or vectored graphics/display list). Various implementations may discard the cached contents at times, or perhaps not even cache content. - Use micrometers rather than pixels as the unit of measurement and provide a "pixelPitch" method to return the size of a pixel. For example, my screen has a pixel pitch of 282 micrometers. A 600dpi printer would have a pixel pitch of around 42 micrometers. You could use a SmallInteger to store micrometer values. - Introduce, somehow, an event system closely coupled to a Canvas (because some events have coordinates relative to a canvas). - Somehow support remotely cached bitmaps. I haven't thought about this yet. Gulik. -- http://people.squeakfoundation.org/person/mikevdg http://gulik.pbwiki.com/

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Hay equipo ? / What a team is ?
by Edgar J. De Cleene 02 Feb '08

02 Feb '08

My limited experience in Squeak teams to date. The SBlog challenge - October 11, 2003. http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3469 Here I learn a lot of all . Hope I don't slowdown they The MorphicTeam Here I was so lucky of having people like Dan and Ned teaching me The MorphicTeam II Here I met my friend Jerome (wiz) and off course have to Juan as boss ! The 3.10 Release team. Here I was so lucky having Ralph as team leader. Private pair programming teaching with top finest Smalltalker ! So I think I know some about working in teams. I said because some said I tyrannical or dictator. Well, this person never lives in country on which criminal dictators kill 30.000 people like me. And I won't work with this person ever. Edgar

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lessphic? may be a future for morphic
by stephane ducasse 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

http:/piumarta.com/software/cola/canvas.pdf BTW one of these days it would be good to - identify the core of morphic (should not that be difficult) - rethink these parts Because we need a small better done UI framework or simply implement lessphic in Squeak

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Discard changes
by Zulq Alam 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

Me and the discard changes dialogue don't get along. I very rarely wish to cancel and only occasionally want to discard. I want to change the behaviour so that instead of prompting me, a new browser is opened. I'd like this behaviour to be the same no matter what type of browser I'm in. My first thought was to hack OBDefinitionPanel>>#aboutToChange: but I can't see how to find out what the new selection is and if I could can't see a uniform way of producing a new browser on this selection. Any ideas? Thanks, Zulq.

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Promoting Squeak/Smalltalk
by David Zmick 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

I have been wondering how to make smalltalk a more "popular" language, because i think it is excellent, and i think it would be good to try to get other people to use it, because, i don't notice to many younger programmers, like myself, using smalltalk, though, i may be wrong. One of the first thing i would think of to promote smalltalk would be writing programs in smalltalk instead of just making smalltalk better, i am not trying to discourage improvement on smalltalk, but if all you are developing is a language for people to continue to develop a language in, it seems like a waste of time. The only program I know about, as in big, large scale programs, written in smalltalk is PetroVR, i may be wrong there to, but i see smalltalk as an excellent development environment and language, but, nothing big is written in it, and it will never grow if the community is focused entirely on making smalltalk better. I might be completely wrong, but that is what i have seen, but, i have only really payed attention for a couple of months, and i think it would be good to see some growth in smalltalk's popularity. :)

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