Squeak-dev November 2002

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

189 participants
695 discussions

An uncomfortable question
by Colin Putney 01 Nov '02

01 Nov '02

Les Tyrrell responded to my post thusly: >> I agree that packages should be versioned, and that dependencies >> should >> include version information. But I also think that having multiple >> versions of a package installed in a single image would not be a good >> idea. The benefits are not worth the complexity it would require. > > > It is a bit early to state it that emphatically. Perhaps I should have been clearer that I was speaking in the context of near term development goals for Squeak. At some point we may find that the benefits multiple-simultaneously-installed versions do outweigh the benefits. But I think that day is a long ways away. > There is no evidence to > support the notion that having this ability would be any more complex > in > practice than not having it, as we do now. You are used to the > situation we > have now... so you think of it as being "simple", by virtue of > familiarity. > As long as we arbitrarily ignore the vast amounts of code which are > *not* > routinely packaged in the official release, then certainly we can > "simplify" > the problem. However, if you now want to consider what it takes to > use all > those other bits of code, then we find that there is a fair bit of > missing > tool support to make this job easier. Deliberately choosing to > neither > develop nor use such tools does not "simplify" life. You're putting words in my mouth. I'm *not* advocating the status quo. I would like to see the development of tools which help us deal with code that is not in the official release. In fact, I would like to see much code removed from the official release and maintained separately, using those tools. I simply don't include multiple-versions-of-the-same-package-in-a-single-image as a requirement for accomplishing this. [I've cut out the portions of my post that deal with the mechanics of how it might work, and you're responses, because your point below summarizes the whole exchange nicely.] > The specifics are not exactly what I'd anticipate, but the gist I > agree with- > very deep impact at a low level, decidedly non-trivial. However, > technically > feasible- a big chunk of this is already working rather well in Oasis. For me this is the key to the whole discussion. We agree that it would be a major change, with a high risk involved. I freely admit that it's technically feasible, but I don't think the benefits make it worth the risk. Just because we *can* do something doesn't mean we should. > But at a > higher level I'd reccomend that we consider that OS's do a lot of > things much > better than what we are doing "within" the image right now. It is > worth > considering ( as I believe Stephen Pair once suggested ) a comparison > and > contrast between Squeak/Smalltalk/image and OS/file systems. To wit: > in an > OS, having something be *available* to use is not the same thing as > *demanding* that it already be in memory. And when done using that > thing, > it goes away. Compare that to the way in which we currently manage our > images. There is a big realm of transient things that are not > managed at > all- we load them at some point, and from that point on, they stay in > the > image, because we do not have tools to identify the extent of these > things and > what is needed to remove them. I just don't see how deliberately > deciding to > never develop such tools will ever be a good thing. But Squeak is not an operating system. It could be someday, sure. We might even consider it a long term goal. I would love to be able to install Squeak as my OS. Have it run on the bare metal. Use it for everything I do with my computer. I'd even enjoy a system where it ran on top of an external kernel, but completely took over the UI. In that scenario, sure, you'd need to be able to do everything from a single image. And when we face that problem, by all means let's solve it. But we're a very long way from that. Right now, the VM requires a host operating system, and it's quite easy to use different images for different purposes. On the other hand, building an image for a specific purpose is quite difficult. We need package management tools today. The work Goran, Avi, Ned and Daniel have done goes a long way towards addressing that need. If we can build on those tools, carve up the base image into packages, and come up with some better tools for distributed development, revision control and so on, I think we could do some really wonderful things with Squeak. Maybe even turn it into an OS. Cheers, Colin Colin Putney Whistler.com

2 1

[ENH]HTMLTableMorph
by Karl Ramberg 01 Nov '02

01 Nov '02

This is yet another version of my HTMLTableMorph. The design is the best yet :-) Do not save in a image that requires Scamper to function unaltered. Some issus are not solved with HTMLSelector and HTMLInput :-( Also the most notorious problem that is not solved is table in table renderering. Some invalidation of owners layout must be signaled and redone, a little tricky. Most obviously the rendering is not yet doing the right thing with border width, inset etc. Shold be quite easy to add. Test this out and report or better send some fixes back. Karl

1 0

[ENH] Image Browser: for browsing code in the other .image file
by Yoshiki.Ohshima＠acm.org 01 Nov '02

01 Nov '02

--===-=-= Hello, Are you getting tired to create unnecessary file outs when all you want to do is to take a look at the code in another image and to see the diffs? Here is what you can do. * File in the attachment, * Open a FileList, * Select a .image file and choose 'browse in ImageBrowser' from the FileList menu, * Open the menu at the class pane of the ImageBrowser, * Choose 'add classes to list' and type the name of classes yo want to see. From a help from InterpreterSimulator, the ImageBrowser reads the source pointers stored in the CompiledMethods in the image file, and get the code from its accompanying .change file. (All file operations are done in 'read only mode'. So, don't worry about breaking your image file.) The convenient functions inherited from FileContentsBrowser, such as 'remove unmodified categories' are there, too. ImageBrowser works for M17n images as well. I happened to notice the recent discussion about 'Diff between two change sets'. This ImageBrowser helps you to get diff between two images:-) Hooking up the internal machinary of this one with Bob's Comparison Browser would be interesting, (although I couldn't find an image to test it.) Let me know any suggestions and comments, -- Yoshiki P.S. 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3 6

Morphs and Players?
by David Faught 01 Nov '02

01 Nov '02

Hi, I am trying to do a simple simulation based on Ned Konz' ConnectorMS changeset and having a terrible time of it. My problems are not so much because of the changeset as they are because of my not understanding how morphs and players relate to each other. I am trying to do some of this through the (player's?) viewer and some through code entered in the class browser and a workspace. I think that this is the way that I want things to work so that the finished simulation can be manipulated easily. Is there a nice tutorial somewhere that will help me out? __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

2 1

[BUG] Loading SM using latest snippet
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 01 Nov '02

01 Nov '02

Hi Goran, I was trying to install SM into a fresh image and the update hung. After alt-.ing it, I got the following (notice the strange server name!) This is because your loading snippet got clipped right at the end of the url, otherwise it works. Goran, just make the url shorter ;-) Daniel Vainsencher 1 November 2002 8:41:39 pm VM: unix - Squeak3.1alpha of 7 March 2001 [latest update: #4173] Image: Squeak3.2 [latest update: #4956] HTTPSocket class>>retry:asking:ifGiveUp: Receiver: HTTPSocket Arguments and temporary variables: tryBlock: [] in HTTPSocket class>>httpGetDocument:args:accept:request: troubleString: 'Trouble resolving server name "SMCardView does not have a metho...etc... abortActionBlock: [] in HTTPSocket class>>httpGetDocument:args:accept:request: response: 0 sema: a Semaphore() Receiver's instance variables: superclass: SimpleClientSocket methodDict: a MethodDictionary(#contentType->a CompiledMethod (2942) #contentTy...etc... format: 150 instanceVariables: #('headerTokens' 'headers' 'responseCode') organization: ('as yet unclassified' contentType contentType: contentsLength: g...etc... subclasses: #(FTPSocket) name: #HTTPSocket classPool: a Dictionary(#HTTPBlabEmail->'' #HTTPPort->80 #HTTPProxyExceptions->...etc... sharedPools: nil environment: a SystemDictionary(lots of globals) category: nil HTTPSocket class>>httpGetDocument:args:accept:request: Receiver: HTTPSocket Arguments and temporary variables: url: 'http://SMCardView does not have a method called /' args: nil mimeType: 'application/octet-stream' requestString: '' serverName: 'SMCardView does not have a method called ' serverAddr: nil port: 80 sock: nil header: nil length: nil bare: 'SMCardView does not have a method called /' page: '/' list: nil firstData: nil aStream: nil index: nil connectToHost: 'SMCardView does not have a method called ' connectToPort: 80 type: nil newUrl: nil Receiver's instance variables: superclass: SimpleClientSocket methodDict: a MethodDictionary(#contentType->a CompiledMethod (2942) #contentTy...etc... format: 150 instanceVariables: #('headerTokens' 'headers' 'responseCode') organization: ('as yet unclassified' contentType contentType: contentsLength: g...etc... subclasses: #(FTPSocket) name: #HTTPSocket classPool: a Dictionary(#HTTPBlabEmail->'' #HTTPPort->80 #HTTPProxyExceptions->...etc... sharedPools: nil environment: a SystemDictionary(lots of globals) category: nil HttpUrl>>retrieveContentsArgs:accept: Receiver: http://SMCardView does not have a method called /#downloadu%250Drl Arguments and temporary variables: args: nil mimeType: 'application/octet-stream' contents: nil request: '' Receiver's instance variables: fragment: 'downloadu%0Drl' schemeName: 'http' authority: 'SMCardView does not have a method called ' path: an OrderedCollection('') query: nil port: nil realm: nil HttpUrl>>retrieveContentsArgs: Receiver: http://SMCardView does not have a method called /#downloadu%250Drl Arguments and temporary variables: args: nil Receiver's instance variables: fragment: 'downloadu%0Drl' schemeName: 'http' authority: 'SMCardView does not have a method called ' path: an OrderedCollection('') query: nil port: nil realm: nil --- The rest of the stack --- HttpUrl>>retrieveContents UndefinedObject>>DoIt Compiler>>evaluate:in:to:notifying:ifFail: [] in TextMorphEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>evaluateSelection BlockContext>>on:do: TextMorphEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>evaluateSelection TextMorphEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>doIt [] in TextMorphEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>doIt: TextMorphEditor(Controller)>>terminateAndInitializeAround: TextMorphEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>doIt: TextMorphEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>dispatchOnCharacter:with: TextMorphEditor(ParagraphEditor)>>readKeyboard TextMorphEditor>>readKeyboard [] in TextMorphForEditView(TextMorph)>>keyStroke: TextMorphForEditView(TextMorph)>>handleInteraction:fromEvent: TextMorphForEditView>>handleInteraction:fromEvent: TextMorphForEditView(TextMorph)>>keyStroke: TextMorphForEditView>>keyStroke: TextMorphForEditView(TextMorph)>>handleKeystroke: KeyboardEvent>>sentTo: TextMorphForEditView(Morph)>>handleEvent: TextMorphForEditView(Morph)>>handleFocusEvent: [] in HandMorph>>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: PasteUpMorph>>becomeActiveDuring: ...etc...

1 0

Get ready for PalmOS6
by PhiHo Hoang 01 Nov '02

01 Nov '02

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/27855.html <QUOTE> The new OS will feature multimedia and graphics frameworks drawn from BeOS, PalmSource's Michael Mace told us. </QUOTE> <QUOTE> Mace also said PalmSource intended the make the new OS Microsoft .NET compatible, and will likely partner with others to provide a run time for the platform. Version 6.0 will also feature an extensible PIM architecture, which should breathe some life into the now dating applications suite used every day by Palm owners. </QUOTE> Enjoy, PhiHo.

1 0

[ANN] SARInstaller v12 on SqueakMap
by Ned Konz 01 Nov '02

01 Nov '02

SARInstaller v12 has been registered on SqueakMap. If you want to install Connectors or other SAR (Squeak ARchive) format files from SqueakMap, you need to install this change set. Get it from SqueakMap, of course! -- Ned Konz http://bike-nomad.com GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

1 0

Re: PDF: preliminary results
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 01 Nov '02

01 Nov '02

Hans, that's great! One could definitely read many articles using that as it is! Please post it (preferably on SM, in a manner that's easy to load). Daniel Vainsencher Hans-Martin Mosner <hmm(a)heeg.de> wrote: > > --Boundary_(ID_KYMhxg4vPNU3qGfXjLh0SQ) > Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > > <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> > <html> > Hello, > for those who want to have PDF rendering in Squeak, here's a screenshot > of a rendered page from the PDF 1.3 manual. As you can see if you compare > it with the actual version of the manual, the font mappings for the symbol > font are not correct yet, colors are not used for text rendering, and glyphs > are generally not very clean since I don't use the TrueType hinting. > I hope to fix some of these within the next week and release the code > then, but there is a lot still to be done. > Cheers, > Hans-Martin > <img SRC="cid:part1.3DC2A459.D79451BB@heeg.de" BORDER=0 height=870 width=1152></html> > > --Boundary_(ID_KYMhxg4vPNU3qGfXjLh0SQ) > Content-id: <part1.3DC2A459.D79451BB(a)heeg.de>

1 0

Re: [ENH] Image Browser: for browsing code in the other .image file
by Markus Fritsche 01 Nov '02

01 Nov '02

Hi! I thought of something similiar. I've found an old 1.2 image and thought about how I could transfer only Classes and Objects that I want (maybe with some intelligence concerning dependencies - like from RB-Browser) into it (so that I have a significant chance to build a "hosters image" of seaside, having all fixes of the socket code (and similiar) of 3.2 ). That would be a bottom-up way appart from the top-down try of 3.3. (Are there any pre1.2 images that are working with the latest vm)? Regards, Markus -- SIGSTOP +++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++ NEU: Mit GMX ins Internet. Rund um die Uhr für 1 ct/ Min. surfen!

2 1

Re: Best way to wrap fairly short text?
by Anthony Hannan 01 Nov '02

01 Nov '02

Ross Boylan <RossBoylan(a)stanfordalumni.org> wrote: > I want the text to wrap around, with the morph growing vertically. Try: (TextMorph new contentsWrapped: 'very long text') openInHand Cheers, Anthony

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