Squeak-dev November 2002

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189 participants
695 discussions

Re: [ANN] SARInstaller v12 on SqueakMap
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 02 Nov '02

02 Nov '02

Aha! almost. That walked back on me, but when I modified it to: storeAdditionalFiles package additionalFiles do: [:filename | zip addMember: ((ZipArchiveMember newFromFile: filename) fileName: filename; yourself). prelude nextPutAll: 'self zip extractMember: '''; nextPutAll: filename; nextPutAll: '''.'; cr] it worked. Thanks, Ned. Avi, can you update this? Daniel Ned Konz <ned(a)bike-nomad.com> wrote: > On Saturday 02 November 2002 10:39 am, danielv(a)netvision.net.il wrote: > > > Do you mean that it gave them names starting with '/'? > > > > Yup. And whole oodles of path after that and before the file name. > > > > > Did you have > > > absolute names in additionalFiles? > > > > Hey, I may be dumb, but I aint stupid... plain file names (see > > below). > > We can fix this. Apparently someone made ZipNewFileMember>>from: use > the stream's name (which is absolute). I don't know why I didn't see > this when I tried it (hey, it ran once!), but try this change: > > SARPackageDumper>> > storeAdditionalFiles > package additionalFiles do: > [:filename | > zip addMember: (ZipArchiveMember newFromFile: filename; fileName: > filename; yourself). > prelude > nextPutAll: 'self zip extractMember: '''; > nextPutAll: filename; > nextPutAll: '''.'; > cr] > > If this fixes the problem (I think it will), please send this to Avi > Bryant, who's maintaining the code. > -- > Ned Konz > http://bike-nomad.com > GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

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Re: [ANN] CGUI WidgetSet
by yampa＠mindspring.com 02 Nov '02

02 Nov '02

On Sat, 02 Nov 2002 14:35:48 +0300 danielv(a)netvision.net.il wrote: > I think we have several different, separate GUI > frameworks/additional > widget sets, none of which are known or used > much by anyone. > > Does anyone know them well enough to say if > they (any two) have enough > in common to merge? > > Daniel > I don't know about all of them, but I am working on a next version of BobsUI, which is one of these widget sets. BobsUI has the ability to be extended reasonably easily, so you can add your own widgets, both to extend the basic widget set, or to have your own theme. It already has a check box and a button, but it doesn't have an iconic button. I am going to release it around January. If you like, I can put some screen shots on the BobsUI swiki page. Doug R.

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RE: An uncomfortable question
by Swan, Dean 02 Nov '02

02 Nov '02

What 3.3a is trying to do with modules is essentially opening the same can of worms that has made MS Windows such a maintenance nightmare. Modules are (more or less) equivalent to .DLLs and may end up with all the associated issues. I don't know of any "good" solutions to these problems, but as attractive as the "idea" of modules is, I am personally content to stick with monolithic images for the forseeable future. The whole concept of "software components" is IMO a fantasy propagated by media hype that ignores all the realities of real world engineering. In "real" hardware product designs, one often finds that re-usability is more of a structuring concept than a hard reality. I don't believe I've ever worked on a hardware design that didn't involve some kind of custom connector that is a "slight" variation of a "standard" connector, for example. (Just for context, I'm referring to everything I've worked on in the last 12 years or so). I think the concept of a monolithic image constrains the reusability myth to realistic proportions, and makes implementation possible. Too much flexibility comes at a cost, which usually rears its ugly head in the form of increased complexity, higher resource requirements, and reduced preformance (relative to a less flexible implementation). As an example of what I'm talking about, I've worked on a couple of different projects in the last few years where the end product has similar capabilities but one was implemented using a "flexible, reusable platform approach" and the other was implemented using a more task specific approach. The flexible system has a source tree for the "platform" of about 5 gigabytes, generates a target image of about 170 megabytes, and needs two 300 MHz PowerPC 603e's and 512M of RAM to run. This system has hundreds of developers working on it. The "task specific" system has a source tree of about 300 megabytes, generates a target image of about 1 megabyte, and runs on one 66 MHz PowerPC with 16M of RAM. This system had 4 developers working on it. The end functionalities of these two systems is *very* similar. I'm not sure what my point is in all of this, but I think we should consider our goals carefully in relation to the questions that Andrew has raised. My preference is towards "lean and mean" rather than "incredibly flexible, general purpose (and suboptimal)". -Dean Swan -----Original Message----- From: Les Tyrrell [mailto:tyrrell@canis.uiuc.edu] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 8:15 PM To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: An uncomfortable question These are important points- as we move forward, I am hoping that we will be moving towards a model in which individual pieces of code are liberated as much as possible from unneccessary constraints on their usage. That is going to require a rather significant change in a lot of Squeak's infrastructure, but I am rather impressed with how much progess is being made by a lot of people in terms of understanding those issues, or at least recognizing them. The days of the monolithic image ( and the inherent weaknesses and roadblocks to progress that it represents ) are, hopefully, numbered. - les ----- Original Message ----- From: <danielv(a)netvision.net.il> To: <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 3:41 PM Subject: Re: An uncomfortable question > Well, I think something interesting is happening in SqueakMap. The count > is now up to 16 packages, by 8 different authors. These range from small > framework additions like SharedStreams to large projects that would be > unlikely to ever become available through the Squeak base image, like > Seaside. > > This opens up directly possibilities to maintain other projects outside > the image too, like Celeste, Scamper and others. > > All this should reduce the maintainance effort required of SqC, and let > the community do experiments in various directions without actually > requiring a fork. > > A case in point - if Henrik's code was first debuted as a SM package, it > would have gotten earlier feedback, it could have been more modular, it > would have been easier for people to try out and it would have been > optional, orthogonal to the harvesting work done on 3.3a. > > This would have saved us at least one uncomfortable question. > > So I think one important thing to consider is how we take full advantage > of this new option we have as a community, and how we change our process > to fit it in.

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[ENH] Simple error message (was: [VI4] Re: [ANN] AspectS (0.4.4) & PerspectiveS (0.1.3))
by Anthony Hannan 02 Nov '02

02 Nov '02

danielv(a)netvision.net.il wrote: > Anthony Hannan <ajh18(a)cornell.edu> wrote: > > As a programmer I prefer to get a walkback > > versus just a popup saying that the install has failed. > Aha! my theoretical nitpicking is not the only reason to remove UI stuff > from the model! we'll add a preference on whether to bring up a > debug/message to deal with errors. Instead of adding a preference what if we make the default error notifier be a pop-up message with choices to debug or abort. This will be less threatening to the user, which I think was the point of Goran's error catching anyway. Attached is a changeset that does this - one for 3.2 and one for VI4. Different versions are needed because I added an extra Exception, UnhandledError, to VI4 that gets raised in Error defaultAction. This gives senders the option to intervene on debugger opening. > Anthony, maybe the same problem you found is ailing the Refactoring > Browser in VI4? I am still working on this bug. I am having a tough time catching it because it just freezes the image with no debugger and no interrupt response. Cheers, Anthony

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[ENH] Simple error message (was: [VI4] Re: [ANN] AspectS (0.4.4) & PerspectiveS (0.1.3))
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 02 Nov '02

02 Nov '02

Anthony Hannan <ajh18(a)cornell.edu> wrote: > Instead of adding a preference what if we make the default error > notifier be a pop-up message with choices to debug or abort. This will > be less threatening to the user, which I think was the point of Goran's > error catching anyway. Attached is a changeset that does this - one for > 3.2 and one for VI4. I don't know, a debugger already gives one this option. If the point is to not scare them, might be better not to ask them about it at all. > Different versions are needed because I added an extra Exception, > UnhandledError, to VI4 that gets raised in Error defaultAction. This > gives senders the option to intervene on debugger opening. Sounds like a good idea. Is this incompatible with 3.2? I'd prefer not to maintain two versions for something so basic... > > Anthony, maybe the same problem you found is ailing the Refactoring > > Browser in VI4? > > I am still working on this bug. I am having a tough time catching it > because it just freezes the image with no debugger and no interrupt > response. Sorry it's causing such trouble... ;-) At least it appears your VM is getting some serious testing these days. > Cheers, > Anthony Daniel V

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Re: [ANN] SARInstaller v12 on SqueakMap
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 02 Nov '02

02 Nov '02

Ned Konz <ned(a)bike-nomad.com> wrote: > On Saturday 02 November 2002 08:40 am, danielv(a)netvision.net.il wrote: > > Hey, it's pretty cool... > > > > I wrote the file names in the additionalFiles, they're in the > > archive, I see the preamble is going to extract them, but one thing > > bothers me - their path in the archive seems to be absolute, > > instead of relative. Why is that? > > Do you mean that it gave them names starting with '/'? Yup. And whole oodles of path after that and before the file name. > Did you have > absolute names in additionalFiles? Hey, I may be dumb, but I aint stupid... plain file names (see below). > > BTW, the code for extracting refers to them only by name, without > > path. > > The names in the archive should be whatever ones you gave in > additionalFiles. > > When you open the SAR using the ArchiveViewer, what are the names you > see there? I'm assuming you're not using WinZip or something to look > at these archives... Nope, I used the archive viewer, and that's where I saw those paths. > > The base file Refactory.st is relative. > > > > Ideas? > > What do you have in additionalFiles? additionalFiles ^#('AbstractVariableTestData.st' 'ChildrenToSiblingTest.st' 'InlineMethodTest.st') > And the members have the same names. Unfortunately, my Squeak disagrees. Maybe it's because they're only file names, without any sort of path? Nope. When I changed it to RBTestFiles/AbstractVariableTestData.st I got the exact same thing. > -- > Ned Konz > http://bike-nomad.com > GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE Daniel

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[FIX] emphChanges-ls
by Lex Spoon 02 Nov '02

02 Nov '02

This is a tiny fix for a long-standing nuisance in the text editor. Hopefully it is correct; the person who put this line in doesn't remember why it was there, and I haven't been able to locate the changeset that includes it. from preamble: "Change Set: emphChanges-ls Date: 2 November 2002 Author: Lex Spoon Remove a call to #setEmphasisHere, so that emphasis may be changed again by typing alt-7, alt-8, etc. before the text is typed. Without this changeset, new text is always entered with the font and emphasis of the text just to its left."!

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Re: [ENH] RBBrowseLocal-nk
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 02 Nov '02

02 Nov '02

Hmm, you're right. Thanks for the heads up. There was a comment around the otherwise functioning code. It'll be in RB 0.92, when I get over some tiny packaging bumps. Daniel Stephane Ducasse <ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch> wrote: > Hi > > Apparentely in my version of RB rename class does not work. Is there > sombody around having time to look at that? > > Stef > > On samedi, novembre 2, 2002, at 01:07 pm, danielv(a)netvision.net.il > wrote: > > > Ok, added into what will soon be 0.92. > > (Strange, I was sure I'd made the menus additive so this wouldn't be > > needed... oh, well). > > > > Daniel > > > > Ned Konz <ned(a)bike-nomad.com> wrote: > >> > >> --Boundary_(ID_/HBSeZjyf9Yu/5bOlrGj5Q) > >> Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN > >> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >> > >> from preamble: > >> > >> "Change Set: RBBrowseLocal-nk > >> Date: 27 October 2002 > >> Author: Ned Konz > >> > >> Adds the browse local senders/implementors to the shifted message list > >> menu in the Refactoring Browser. > >> "! > >> > >> --Boundary_(ID_/HBSeZjyf9Yu/5bOlrGj5Q) > >> Content-type: application/octet-stream; NAME=RBBrowseLocal-nk.cs.gz > >> Content-transfer-encoding: base64 > >> Content-disposition: attachment; filename=RBBrowseLocal-nk.cs.gz > >> > >> H4sIAAAAAAAAAH1VXW8aOxB9XqT9D5P2AfIQAqRtGt4ICJV7myYKbaWrKpXMrpe1Yuy9tp > >> co > >> /fWd8Qcfidon8Hx55pwz3u7c6A0s/285e7zoj0BXMBzCP618htFgMIIfkjluHbRNiX/ > >> G8Pbd > >> 1fsPD6AVjC7htnB6xU2IZA6uxu8G49FHYJvuSf5mWjO15rDkbpxl99fXRj9Z/ > >> lkXTJ6px3xG > >> 5bIse1Emn7Su1oY8X3gJ/ > >> 2r1K88nZWnB1RxWvgZIKgKWq5Ibey42jeQbrpw2GKV9oK1F5TB/ > >> w61l2IQUOAPGtCCUD7jnFcNrjVBrCJ2Zfv7mJM/ > >> zkwNX9GAmNlXaOTYG3VSzYYp3wTq2adCq > >> HmE4OB9dnnswBlfjiysEIcZ+xutv8PYxMPpJ7Y3Tn7yT/dz1LKo5kxax/ > >> hGCJVtxacd5pxvH > >> r1opobc6zTuVkPy2dXmnwW6d/xdRQSL7/ > >> T70FEYdARTtG7SHqRCRmhvhmCo49Gq0bzFfaGWh > >> t6VshdBtmQHDK4u5B5YyWQrJrD0O2pkEW0luk4H80PuCdQ3f6C3PO/ > >> fXcAaWVRyOLKwsEWHD > >> sEluos1whefIRrQJJYXiwCQJQlZeFTb6mtbWqNzDU6mfFE6uDccuu4g7ZVvUde8CLmE4ws > >> Yy > >> rMMLRwgg6Fn2thdwv/HXzgn8iPtNUkJEP54pKaQsAxm3VfRYSKXiMYzySXDDTFE/R/ > >> f3SMC+ > >> 0AIh/ > >> 87MPaF3ZJntLVMCOAVRanZsD0QcBlMkBQbg0zTpRJ0tiRek4i4xETm4SdIh+JaIO01q > >> PcTfmuikwwzhjsco7/ > >> +4lPrpunVOqwmivBXuGU4f8g42Iqqvpn0lfEi6DwqqE1h559C+O0VV > >> 925J4eyR04aq8oxJrXZOWt284/R6LTmUoqpw11/ > >> tCUnJpRfE5kePTlijaHu9X6j28PhZ7iw8 > >> CVfjoyPsTrm4QQ1KDGiTaO/s3mTb1YE1cAEVPdK+QhjS7C4o8Blda/ > >> PsLzUcV9fRG9jgX6Fb > >> XMAgpeNKRWsMzbZvcpeLUEGlzZpMFXcFbUzR0nDM+TppdWC/ > >> O7g87+EjfTeGFzD88GKF0OsJ > >> eilyr0CvU91wtUQGZJLg7tlF+hZW0yeonOqS3yFtEFibBdJirYmUu5XKV/sPzZ/ > >> 2zzsXh7Rh > >> sTIIdaHCh2tJ1FF7kZlFYgWiYdmuFnumXmzRHHFOY5AzQD2NbIVwAvyrvotUxaWHfSmqMQ > >> 1U > >> hZbo+aSkiSrnniMf7Gma6eLOizrLWvWXVTt9OAH8yv0GRp8UyfcHAAA= > >> > >> --Boundary_(ID_/HBSeZjyf9Yu/5bOlrGj5Q)-- > > > > > Dr. Stéphane DUCASSE (ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch) > http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/ > "if you knew today was your last day on earth, what would you do > different? ... especially if, by doing something different, today > might not be your last day on earth" Calvin&Hobbes

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Re: [ANN] SARInstaller v12 on SqueakMap
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 02 Nov '02

02 Nov '02

Hey, it's pretty cool... I wrote the file names in the additionalFiles, they're in the archive, I see the preamble is going to extract them, but one thing bothers me - their path in the archive seems to be absolute, instead of relative. Why is that? BTW, the code for extracting refers to them only by name, without path. The base file Refactory.st is relative. Ideas? Daniel Ned Konz <ned(a)bike-nomad.com> wrote: > On Saturday 02 November 2002 03:45 am, danielv(a)netvision.net.il wrote: > > Hehe, I just installed this (having the installable filter turned > > on), and when SMLoader refreshed, Connectors suddenly appeared. > > > > Somedays, it's the little things that look like magic... > > > > How do I specify that I want my RB package to use the SARDumper > > instead of the regular DVS dumper? > > It's manual, actually. Sorry, but you'll have to use a workspace for > it. > > It takes a PackageInfo instance: > > SARPackageDumper fileOutPackage: (ConnectorsInfo someInstance) as: > 'Connectors.sar' > > -- > Ned Konz > http://bike-nomad.com > GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

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[Modules] mailing list and activities
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 02 Nov '02

02 Nov '02

For those who got to wondering about that strange quietness in module land - About a week ago I tried to compile a shopping list of stuff we still need to make modules. I mailed some people that had shown some sort of interest. Anyway, this became a fast and furious discussion, that became a mailing list at sqmodules(a)lists.advantive.com, courtesy of Stephen Pair. I thought this was a good time to announce it here, because some people were asking questions. So anyone seriously interested in module, and not minding the smoke, sparks and rough edges of really raw code is invited to join. A bit about what's going on - Andreas Raab has convinced us that it'd be better to move to strong modules now, mostly in order to simplify the code and the mental model of how things should work. This requires some major changes to the tool set, and he's just released a first version of a module aware browser. This includes nice support for automatically keeping track of dependencies. Stephen Pair and I thought up a nice and simple way of passing around the names of modules for people to load - just make it a Url. Select something like loadmodule:/People/dvf/GraphAlgorithms in any text pane, bring up the menu, url-it, and that's it, you have a module. I'll post that here soon. Stephen Pair's selectors spaces are also a hot topic of discussion, and he's been refining the ideas and working out an implementation, to help round out modules later. If you want more detail, and especially if you're already working on modules (CraigL, Torge,you there?) you're welcome to read the archives and join us there. Note that traffic's been somewhat heavy lately. Of course whenever something's ready for prime time, things will be presented here. The original reason for the separate discussion was that modules were not popular and not easily popularized. When modules become a little more mainstream, the discussion should probably return to squeak-dev. Daniel

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