Squeak-dev November 2002

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189 participants
695 discussions

DVS - remotely updating to / from a server... Monticello?
by Derek Brans 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

I want to update a package on a remote server without having to do the whole fileOut - ftp put - fileIn thing. How easy would it be to create a subclass of PackageManager that pushes / pulls updates to / from a server? Is it Monticello that I'm after? Thanks! Derek Nerd on a Wire: Web and Information Solutions Website Design - Database Systems - Site Hosting 604.874.6463 mailto:info@nerdonawire.com For more information, visit http://nerdonawire.com

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[Fwd: [BUG] SqueakMap browser download/install trouble]
by Karl Ramberg 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

frank_bigben wrote: > > --- In squeak@y..., Karl Ramberg <karl.ramberg@c...> wrote: > > > > > > Ross Boylan wrote: > > > > > > In a current 3.4a image, using the SqueakMap browser and > focusing on Win32 > > > Native Fonts (with Squeak Versions ... | 3.4 selected in the > upper panes) I > > > notice two problems. > > > > > > First, install is not available as an option, even though the > package > > > description says it is now in sar format to enable auto-install > from > > > SqueakMap. > > > > > > Second, if I select download I get a walkback because > installer _ > > > SMInstaller forPackage: package directory: downloadDirectory. > > > in SMSqueakMapBrowser>>downloadPackage has returned nil. > > > > > > I'm running on Win32, if that matters. > > > > > > I'm just getting into this stuff, so I don't know if it's a > general problem or > > > something specific to this package. The SM Package Loader seems > to suffer the > > > same problems with this package. Or is it just me? > > > > Do you have the SARInstaller installed ? > > > > Karl > > Thanks. I did not, and things worked OK after I installed it. > Ross Boylan (while traveling--ignore the return address). > > P.S. I'm doing this from yahoo--not sure if it will go to the > list. Could you forward it if it doesn't?

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[BUG?] objects tool has no pictures
by Ross Boylan 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

The objects browser now mostly doesn't show pictures of the objects it makes available (o off the main menu). It used to; I have 3.4a #5125. Is this by design? Is there a way to change the behavior? AudioChat under Collaborative and the StarSqueak items show images in the tool; nothing else does. Ah, I found reset thumbnails off the Morphic main menu, and that fixed things up. But shouldn't they be on by default? Also, when I dragged an arrow out yesterday I was unable to bring up the standard morphic halo. I just tried it again, and this time it works... ____________________________________________________________________

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Re: [BUG] SqueakMap browser download/install trouble
by Karl Ramberg 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

Ross Boylan wrote: > > In a current 3.4a image, using the SqueakMap browser and focusing on Win32 > Native Fonts (with Squeak Versions ... | 3.4 selected in the upper panes) I > notice two problems. > > First, install is not available as an option, even though the package > description says it is now in sar format to enable auto-install from > SqueakMap. > > Second, if I select download I get a walkback because installer _ > SMInstaller forPackage: package directory: downloadDirectory. > in SMSqueakMapBrowser>>downloadPackage has returned nil. > > I'm running on Win32, if that matters. > > I'm just getting into this stuff, so I don't know if it's a general problem or > something specific to this package. The SM Package Loader seems to suffer the > same problems with this package. Or is it just me? Do you have the SARInstaller installed ? Karl

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[BUG] SqueakMap browser download/install trouble
by Ross Boylan 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

In a current 3.4a image, using the SqueakMap browser and focusing on Win32 Native Fonts (with Squeak Versions ... | 3.4 selected in the upper panes) I notice two problems. First, install is not available as an option, even though the package description says it is now in sar format to enable auto-install from SqueakMap. Second, if I select download I get a walkback because installer _ SMInstaller forPackage: package directory: downloadDirectory. in SMSqueakMapBrowser>>downloadPackage has returned nil. I'm running on Win32, if that matters. I'm just getting into this stuff, so I don't know if it's a general problem or something specific to this package. The SM Package Loader seems to suffer the same problems with this package. Or is it just me? ____________________________________________________________________

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[BUG]Version browser cannot removed method (ctl-x)
by Tim Rowledge 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

The version browser doesn't understand the removeMessage message sent by the CodeHolder>messageListKey:from: Sq 3.4-5125 tim -- Tim Rowledge, tim(a)sumeru.stanford.edu, http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim Strange OpCodes: YOGA: Exit Finite-State Mode

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(no subject)
by Niko Schwarz 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 (21:22:33) cafekiller: (lm) ur bf nick (21:22:34) maiageorge: pleas i sent.... (21:22:36) maiageorge: goodbye (21:22:44) cafekiller: girl.. (21:22:59) cafekiller: i needed u 2. (21:23:05) cafekiller: (lm) bye - -- Carperpetuation (kar' pur pet u a shun), n.: The act, when vacuuming, of running over a string at least a dozen times, reaching over and picking it up, examining it, then putting it back down to give the vacuum one more chance. -- Rich Hall, "Sniglets" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE958zt3P3nmXTVnC8RArQXAJ0fwlg6yYHI2QBeokemFPUuf4OfcgCgzI9C +lmkXMlzoffkbJrBqsbYukw= =k7BH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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e: Recent Morphic/Alice changes?
by Bill Schwab 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

Andreas, --------------------------------------- > is there a way to refactor Alice so the classes would > not be necessary, and therefore would not need to be recompiled? There certainly is, but I have never looked at it. Mostly because Wonderlands are the kind of environments where you don't create hundreds of actors dynamically. I don't know what exactly you are doing but I would recommend looking at what class reshapes take place and why. Most likely, a lot can be done just by reordering things a little. --------------------------------------- Making a long story short, I'm looking for some kind of retained mode graphics engine: basically anything that lets me think in terms of objects instead of triangles. Maybe the answer is in the Teapot category. I can't actually run Croquet at home, but I can browse the code, and it looks like there are pieces that I could glue together to do the kinds of things that I have in mind. There's even some (gasp<g>) documentation. Will classes like TFrame etc. be available independent of Croquet? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. bills(a)anest4.anest.ufl.edu (352) 846-1285

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Variables, Names and Objects (was: Pattern Hatching and also: A big teacher wish)
by Dan Rozenfarb 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

Hi, > What I find very serious here is that someone (almost certainly NOT > Daniel Altman, but perhaps someone who taught him) As one of those who taught Daniel I thought I should jump into > has tried to LEGITIMISE the distinction between primitive values and objects > that we find in C++ and Java. I believe you are making a whole lot of assumptions of just a couple of names Daniel mentioned, though I recognize that the way he put them can be misleading. We never legitimized such a distinction. > > "Daniel Altman (Da Vinci)" wrote: > > In OOP (at Univ. of Buenos Aires) we learn to call them this way: > > - variables --> internal collaborators > > - parameters --> external collaborators > Trouble is, it's wrong. I don't see why. I explain them below > There are three things we can distinguish between. > (The classic "Informal Introduction to Algol 68" had a diagrammatic notation that made this all clear.) > > 1. There is the NAME of a variable. > This is the thing you type in. It is made of letters. > > 2. There is the VARIABLE itself. > This is a box. It is made of storage units in a computer's memory. > > 3. There is the current VALUE of a variable. > This is an abstract computational thingie, determined by interpreting > the contents of the box in the context of the rules of the language, > the structure of the program, and the contents of other boxes. I know this and agree. > The collaborators are NOT the variables, they are the VALUES of the variables. Correct, who said the opposite? You just inferred (over inferred?) it from a couple of lines. > The distinction between 'internal collaborators' and 'external collaborators' > is also a bad one. I don't agree, but let me elaborate a bit further. In our course, our primary focus is Objects, Smalltalk is just an implementation of Objects (though nothing less) as is Self. In that sense we teach that in an Object Environment we only have objects collaborating through message sending, essentially nothing else. Thus objects send messages to others to collaborate, and that is why we call those 'Collaborators', not the NAMES, not the VARIABLES, but the VALUES, as you call them. But for an object to collaborate with any other, he must know it first. >From a conceptual point of view, the message sender only knows the receiver by name [1], and that name could be global or local. Local being: instance variables, temporary, parameters, etc. And globals: everything in the Smalltalk dictionary, or in globals (or lobby, don't recall exactly) in Self. Now, from an implementation point of view Smalltalk and many others use variables to bind those names and the collaborators. Unfortunately, variables in Smalltalk are not objects. The distinction between external and internal is for expressing the relationship between an object and the collaborator "behind" the name. In the 'Internal collaborator' case we are not saying that the object owns the collaborator (who may even change during the object lifetime), but that has an acquaintance to which he closely collaborates with. So closely as to don't need for others to send it to him as a parameter every time. On the other hand, an 'External collaborator' is not an acquaintance. Although the object can send messages to it [2], is external in the sense that it was needed to receive it as a parameter in a message in order to do so. According to my opinion, though reasonable people may disagree, this notation is very object oriented, not misleading and very understandable by students [3]. Also, as you point out in another email: > It is in general *impossible* for a name in a program to express the whole truth. > If I have > p := x @ y. > q := y @ x. > then in what sense is x "internal" to p? Here, you are confusing x ownership, which of course the point don't really have, with a name we use regarding the fact that a point will "always" have an internal name that will point to a collaborator at any time. > The distinction between instance variables and method arguments is one of BINDING TIME only, > having nothing whatsoever to do with internal/external. No. From a semantic and modeling point of view, it is not the same to make an object have an instance variable than to receive a parameter. The nature of knowledge and relation that exists between the object and one or the other is different. > My opinion is that it's more OO thinking an object as having > collaborators (and interacting with them sending messages) We agree. Now that you mention OO thinking, let me point out that I don�t like the term VALUE. Although you mentioned it in the context of Algol, I believe it is misleading. It should just be OBJECT. VALUE has old, and unwanted connotations. There is another meaning for value, however, that I regard as important but has to do with a different and higher abstraction level than the one we are talking about here (see http://domainlanguage.com/book.html) > rather than thinking those collaborators as variables, We never did so > I prefer the term "acquaintances" here because having been exposed to > Class-Responsibility-Collaborator cards, I think of a *class* having > collaborators which are *classes*. According to my opinion, that�s wrong. A class doesn�t collaborate with other classes, rather their instances are the ones who do. That way, you can replace a collaborator with some other which is instance of ANY class, as long as it can respond to a certain common protocol. You seem to be limiting collaborator to objects belonging to a class hierarchy, just as Eiffel does. Of course, I know that classes are objects as well, so that what I�m saying may sound circular, but I hope you�ll understand what I mean. Best regards, Dan Rozenfarb [1] You can also add a "contract" here, and some other things, but I am simplifying here [2] After all, he has given it a NAME in the method text, and a VARIABLE will be created ad hoc to bind the NAME to the VALUE in the activation [3] They tend to use an informal design heuristic, which matches internal with frequent and external with less frequent, for helping them deciding whether to declare an instance variable or a parameter ---------- "Daniel Altman (Da Vinci)" <Daniel.Altman@d... </group/squeak/post?protectID=132166234009056153033222001056124253000098015241077171188150166091061076020227>> wrote: In OOP (at Univ. of Buenos Aires) we learn to call them this way: - variables --> internal collaborators - parameters --> external collaborators Trouble is, it's wrong. There are three things we can distinguish between. (The classic "Informal Introduction to Algol 68" had a diagrammatic notation that made this all clear.) 1. There is the NAME of a variable. This is the thing you type in. It is made of letters. 2. There is the VARIABLE itself. This is a box. It is made of storage units in a computer's memory. 3. There is the current VALUE of a variable. This is an abstract computational thingie, determined by interpreting the contents of the box in the context of the rules of the language, the structure of the program, and the contents of other boxes. The collaborators are NOT the variables, they are the VALUES of the variables. Given Object subclass: #Point instanceVariableNames: 'x y' classVariableNames: '' poolDictionaries: '' category: 'Graphics-Primitives' and p := 27@2... </group/squeak/post?protectID=196084101081035071> Then 'x' is a variable name. p's x is a variable 27 is one of p's acquaintances. I prefer the term "acquaintances" here because having been exposed to Class-Responsibility-Collaborator cards, I think of a *class* having collaborators which are *classes*. The distinction between 'internal collaborators' and 'external collaborators' is also a bad one. If I have p := x @ y. q := y @ x. then in what sense is x "internal" to p? If I have "Complex >>" - other ^Complex re: re - other re im: im - other im negated ^Complex zero - self then in what sense is a complex number "external" to *itself* when passed to Complex>> - by aComplex negated? The distinction between instance variables and method arguments is one of BINDING TIME only, having nothing whatsoever to do with internal/external. My opinion is that it's more OO thinking an object as having collaborators (and interacting with them sending messages) rather than thinking those collaborators as variables, Anyone who confuses a collaborator (an object) with a variable (NOT an object in Smalltalk) is about as seriously confused as someone who confuses a person with a house just because a person lives in a house. Smalltalk objects have instance variables *SO THAT* they can have acquaintances. [variables are] a concept that is usually associated with a value that you can directly manipulate. You can "directly manipulate" something if and only if you can physically grab it, move it around, and change it with your hands ('manes' in Latin). Now, suppose I do this: (BorderedStringMorph contents: 'Boojum!') openInWorld. then take the mouse, place it over the morph, Command-click, select the red menu, choose "change font", and change the font. The morph changes. It _feels_ as if I made this change happen with my hands. That's "direct manipulation". So by this definition, a BorderedStringMorph is a variable. That can't be right. If I translate this into less metaphoric terms, "a value that you can directly manipulate" appears to mean "some kind of value for which your programming language provides built in operations." But then an array would not count as a variable in C. Given typedef int ia10[10]; ia10 x, y; ... x = y; is illegal in C. (Actually, the C standard would probably agree that an array isn't a variable. The C standard thinks it's an "object".) What I find very serious here is that someone (almost certainly NOT Daniel Altman, but perhaps someone who taught him) has tried to LEGITIMISE the distinction between primitive values and objects that we find in C++ and Java. We find no such distinction in Eiffel or Smalltalk. In both Eiffel and Smalltalk, *everything* is an object. ALL variables (notionally) hold references to objects. (Eiffel has the idea of 'expanded' variables, which are born initialised and cannot be reassigned. It's basically a nicely thought out efficiency hack which makes integers at one and the same time perfectly good objects AND just bits that work exactly like C number.) It has been conventional to call the boxes that hold references to objects "variables" for as long as there have _been_ object-oriented languages. (We've also had 'slots' (Lisp), 'features' (Eiffel), 'members' (C++), and a lot of other linguistic innovation whose chief purpose seems to have been to distinguish Us from Them.) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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Re: Retrying an Exception in its defaultAction?
by Anthony Hannan 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

Hi Ned, Ned Konz <ned(a)bike-nomad.com> wrote: > I'd like to have the defaultAction for an Exception subclass retry the > block in some cases (while resuming or returning in others). Retry which block? That is the problem, retry is meant to be called from a specific handler block, so it retries its protected block. If you mean retry the inner-most protected block, then I would add a new method to Exception that does just that, and call if from defaultAction. It would find the next handler starting from the initial (signal) context and restart it. Cheers, Anthony

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