Squeak-dev March 2001

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139 participants
508 discussions

RE: Difference between Morphs and bad programming
by Stephen Pair 28 Mar '01

28 Mar '01

It's important to remember what important about MVC (and MVP). With MVC, you enable the independent evolution and deployment of an object and it's representation in some context (in this case a GUI). MVC was designed in a time when much less was known about prototype based languages, delegation, and context based behavior. So, MVC has it's limitations. And, because the base language/VM (Squeak) lacks some of these advanced language features, Morphic also suffers a bit. But, Morphic itself imposes no limitations wrt using an MVC design. Thomas makes some excellent points along these lines. I don't think anyone on this list would argue that model-view separation is not a good thing, it's just that Morphic lives in this sort of language purgatory that makes neither MVC, nor Morphic ideal (but based on where languages and UIs are headed, I'd say Morhpic is a better bet). - Stephen > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Hartwig [mailto:bob@bobjectsinc.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 5:12 PM > To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Subject: Re: Difference between Morphs and bad programming > > > Interesting observation Ross, I share your concern. The > definition of "bad > programming" is highly dependent on the scope and purpose of the system > being programmed. For a medium- to large-sized system, or a system that > may need to be ported across dialects, mixing the UI and model is a > disaster. For a quick proof of concept or exploratory simulation, it > probably isn't. > > To me, one of the great things about Squeak and Morphic is that they > support both modes of development. You can write your model in Smalltalk > and put a Morphic UI on top (as I did in SqueakAmp - > http://www.bobjectsinc.com/squeakamp ), or you can just go nuts in Morphic > to get some cool smaller-scale stuff done quickly. I do share your > concern, though, that Morphic doesn't actively encourage the former, and > IMHO more powerful mode of development. > > -Bob > > > At 12:28 PM 3/27/2001 -0800, you wrote: > >I must be missing something. I've read a bunch of documents on morphs, > >including why they are "way cool". I've played around with them a little > bit. > > > >It seems to me the argument for separating the model from the > >view/controller is a good one. And it seems to me the "cool" > thing about > >morphs is that they don't separate these things. > > > >All the buzz at least suggests that morphs represent some kind of > >mind-shift from the usual way of doing things. My mind seems > not to have > >shifted! Could anyone help me out on this one? > > > >Do you agree that morphs include both the GUI and the model? Or > are morphs > >intended to be a more capable GUI layer that will still operate > in tandem > >with underlying, non-graphical model classes? If not, why is combining > >model and GUI a good thing? > > > >Regardless of the first point, what is or are the core > innovations of morphs? > > > > >

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Cool Hardware for Squeak
by Jochen F. Rick 28 Mar '01

28 Mar '01

http://www.paceblade.com/ I know we occasionally like thinking about hardware for dynabooks. This is some nice hardware, though it may be vaporware. Peace and Luck! Je77

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Re: excited newbie:)
by Brian Rice 28 Mar '01

28 Mar '01

>On Monday 26 March 2001 05:22, Raymond Tiefenthal wrote: > >> But I have a question too: The workspace >> variables seem to have dissapeared. I'm using globals at the moment, >> because I haven't got a better idea. > >The workspace variables are kept in a private bindings dictionary (try >"inspect model"). If you have a workspace in a workspace, they won't share >that dictionary. But you could inspect the inner one and set its bindings to >its parent's. > >-- >Ned Konz >currently: Stanwood, WA >email: ned(a)bike-nomad.com >homepage: http://bike-nomad.com Workspace in a workspace? :) Care to explain the various (or one) ways that this can be done? This sounds like a good way to encourage exploration if we had a special workspace handler morph that allowed you to click-create sub-workspaces. Thanks, ~

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RE: Squeak Foundation?
by Elzbieta Chludzinska 27 Mar '01

27 Mar '01

Dave Thomas is scheduled to deliver a keynote address ("Smalltalk Next? ...) Wednesday at 9:00am. I assume that's where he announce the Foundation. ---Elzbieta >===== Original Message From Ned Konz <ned(a)bike-nomad.com> ===== >On Monday 26 March 2001 15:38, Elzbieta Chludzinska wrote: > >> I've heard tell of an announcement at the Smalltalk Solutions 2001 >> Conference of a Squeak Foundation to be supported by Disney, IBM and Dave >> Thomas (whatever that means). Is this correct and does anyone have more >> info? I assume this support Squeak like the Apache Foundation supports >> Apache! > >What a great rumor! That would be a interesting step forward, though I don't >know what the foundation would do, since SqC are mostly on the Disney >payroll... > >Presumably, "Dave Thomas" would be the Dave Thomas of IBM/OTI/Carleton U. >fame, rather than the outgoing IBM PC Systems Group VP of the same name... > >-- >Ned Konz >currently: Stanwood, WA >email: ned(a)bike-nomad.com >homepage: http://bike-nomad.com

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Re: Browser Plugin 3.0 update
by Mark Guzdial 27 Mar '01

27 Mar '01

Thanks, Karl! Rather than download the updater, I downloaded a whole new Squeak plugin, and now I'm golden -- I can finally read etoys-simstories. Thanks! Mark >Seems to load with new plugin/ image combo > >Karl > >Bert Freudenberg wrote: > > > > On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Mark Guzdial wrote: > > > > > I've been trying to download Alan's EToys-Simstories project at > > > http://www.squeakland.org/author/etoys.html, and everytime, I get an > > > Array Subscript out of Bounds error, now even with the browser plugin > > > update. Are others having this problem? > > > > Yes, me too. The problem seems to be that these project are ZIP compressed > > archives (multiple files) while older images only handle GZIP compressed > > files. So you need an image that can handle ZIP archives (3.1 I guess). > > > > -- Bert -------------------------- Mark Guzdial : Georgia Tech : College of Computing : Atlanta, GA 30332-0280 Associate Professor - Learning Sciences & Technologies. Collaborative Software Lab - http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/csl/ (404) 894-5618 : Fax (404) 894-0673 : guzdial(a)cc.gatech.edu http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/Faculty/Mark.Guzdial.html

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Re: AudibleDebugger (fixed)
by Ned Konz 27 Mar '01

27 Mar '01

On Sunday 25 March 2001 13:30, Brian Rice wrote: > Can anyone give a good estimate of what it would take to make a simple > tool for this, maybe extending the BlockContext protocol to delegate to an > AudibleDebugger, and maybe stepping down execution speed? I can't make an estimate, but I'd consider a couple of things: (1) enqueue sound requests for a separate process to deal with rather than making your process wait for the sound to be produced (2) you could make wrappers for CompiledMethods by copying them and editing the bytecodes so that they could (for instance) make sounds. This way you wouldn't have to change the source every time you turned a sound on or off. Terry Raymond's Crafted Smalltalk Debugger for VisualWorks does this (he calls these edited methods "method probes"). I'm sure that there's sample code (at least for VW) out there. -- Ned Konz currently: Stanwood, WA email: ned(a)bike-nomad.com homepage: http://bike-nomad.com

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Re: Browser Plugin 3.0 update
by Bert Freudenberg 27 Mar '01

27 Mar '01

On Tue, 27 Mar 2001, Mark Guzdial wrote: > I've been trying to download Alan's EToys-Simstories project at > http://www.squeakland.org/author/etoys.html, and everytime, I get an > Array Subscript out of Bounds error, now even with the browser plugin > update. Are others having this problem? Yes, me too. The problem seems to be that these project are ZIP compressed archives (multiple files) while older images only handle GZIP compressed files. So you need an image that can handle ZIP archives (3.1 I guess). -- Bert

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Re: Browser Plugin 3.0 update
by Karl Ramberg 27 Mar '01

27 Mar '01

Sorry, I blew the whistles to early: I managed to locate the old installer that was the source of the old and non fixed plugin and image. The new one seems to work fine:-) Karl Michael Rueger wrote: > > Karl Ramberg wrote: > > > The NPSqueak plugin is not the same as I got from John M Macintosh, > > after a massive effort from his side. The one I have from him is smaller > > and faster and works without bugs on netscape communicator. > > Which version do you have? > The update includes the v 3.0 alpha 10. > > Michael

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Update wanted: Corba and Squeak
by HNBeck＠t-online.de 27 Mar '01

27 Mar '01

Hi, Since the last posting to the Corba/Squeak theme there is some time gone... So are there news ? Perhaps I'm interested to try to work on a Corba for Squeak, but if so, I would need help, because I know nothing about the Squeak code. So I can not estimate the effort to code something real working (and therefore I can not say if it can be done at all according to my time available). And I'm not a Corba wizard, but I know the standard, worked with it and I've looked at code from omiORB and JacOrb. And I want it :-)) Any freaks may be interested to help or anyone already work on the same thing? Greetings Hans

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Re: Squeak on tinies (was Re: Squeak on iPaq-Linux Update)
by Bob Arning 27 Mar '01

27 Mar '01

On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:51:22 -0500 Doug Way <dway(a)riskmetrics.com> wrote: >Also, instead of the regular system browser, you might want to try BobsBrowser, which is a menu-driven browser with no list panes. It might be better suited to a small screen, since the code pane can take up the whole screen. It's available at http://www.charm.net/~arning/BobsBrowser.14Apr1206pm.cs.txt . (Unfortunately, it was written awhile ago and will certainly need some updating to work with 3.0... for example, the hierarchy widget code could be removed, since that's now in the base image.) There is a newer version (for 3.1) as a project on BSS. Cheers, Bob

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