Squeak-dev August 1999

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RE: Morphic viewers and SyntaxMorph
by Pennell, David 26 Aug '99

26 Aug '99

Where can we find the Educom presentation by Alan?

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AW: Morphic viewers and SyntaxMorph
by Torsten.Bergmann＠phaidros.com 26 Aug '99

26 Aug '99

>Last night I watched the Educomm '98 presentation by Alan and was motivated >by the driving car example to finally sit down and figure out how to >manipulate Morphic tiles, scripts and viewers. Wow! What fun! I also watched the Educomm presentation by Alan. Cool ! Is someone able to shortly describe the things he did to combine the wheel with the car without coding. The video quality was poor - so I wasnt able to figure out how he did it. Thanks Torsten

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Re: 2.5 for Linux
by Bruce ONeel 26 Aug '99

26 Aug '99

Hi, Sorry for the delay... I didn't see an answer to this come across the line. I'm changing ftp://st.cs.uiuc.edu/pub/Smalltalk/Squeak/. It does look like ftp://uiarchive.cso.uiuc.edu/pub/lang/smalltalk/Smalltalk/Squeak/2.5/ is the same place as ftp://st.cs.uiuc.edu/pub/Smalltalk/Squeak/2.5/ though, so it shouldn't matter. cheers bruce Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)isgnw.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De> wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, Bruce ONeel wrote: > > > Hi, > > For download simplicity there are packages with the 2.5 images and > > changes files, sources file, and the 2.4c VM for different Unixen at > > ftp://st.cs.uiuc.edu/Smalltalk/Squeak/2.5. Once the VMs are updated to > > 2.5 I'll rebuild the packages. > > These files didn't show up yet on our mirror in Magdeburg > (ftp://ftp.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/pub/Smalltalk/). I'll go and fix this. > OIC - we were still getting the stuff from uiarchive.cso.uiuc.edu. Is it > correct to mirror ftp://st.cs.uiuc.edu/pub instead? > > /bert

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Problem with PWS and Squeak2.5
by Kellie Miller 26 Aug '99

26 Aug '99

Is it just me or is anyone else experiencing a crash when they try to run PWS in the 2.5 release. I have tried it with the Solaris binary and with the Win95 binary. I had downloaded the Win95 2.4d version at home (I'm not sure of the letter, it may have been 2.4c) and it has no problems running PWS. The gdb backtrace on Solaris looks like this: #0 0x53f54 in socketValueOf () #1 0x4d258 in primitiveSocketListenOnPort () #2 0x4b3ac in primitiveResponse () #3 0x36ae0 in interpret () #4 0x62dd4 in main () I played with Squeak 1.2 over the Christmas Holidays a year or two ago so I'm not a total newbie but I am incredibly impressed at how far Squeak has evolved since then. And it's all thanks to the Swiki code that I was reminded to check into it again. Thanks to all, Kellie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

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Morphic viewers and SyntaxMorph
by Stephen Pair 26 Aug '99

26 Aug '99

Last night I watched the Educomm '98 presentation by Alan and was motivated by the driving car example to finally sit down and figure out how to manipulate Morphic tiles, scripts and viewers. Wow! What fun! As I was playing, the tiles reminded me of Bob's SyntaxMorph. It would be interesting to see the Morphic tile and SyntaxMorph concepts unified. Assuming that children would start in the environment with Morphic tiles and scripts, wouldn't it be great if their first exposure to a class browser was with a SyntaxMorph that gave them the familiar tile interface (which could be directly manipulated to alter a method)? - Stephen

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Re: remember to add those goodies to the Swiki!
by Peter William Lount 26 Aug '99

26 Aug '99

Hi Bert, I'd be inclined to keep these items around for a lot longer than a month. Certainly your suggestion of being able to search for the information is very usefull. Maybe only list the most recent items on the web but keep a full archive a click away. A sorted listing would also be of interest. A seperate swiki page could be automatically generated for each item and an automatic email sent to the submitter of the item so that they can just click to get to the swiki page to edit and place extra information there. Reminders could be sent to the originator or maintainers every n months asking if there is an update. Also, people could post their email address with the swiki page so that they can receive email updates that there is new information about the item - like a new version or more documentation. All the best, Peter William Lount peter(a)smalltalk.org http://www.smalltalk.org > I even consider automatic deletion of the entries after, say, a month or so?

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Re: PWS headless - Lack of Responsiveless and Double Submits
by Peter William Lount 26 Aug '99

26 Aug '99

Hi, http://www2.smalltalk.org:8080/chat By putting the code, (Delay forMilliseconds: 100) wait, back into the PWS>loopOnPort:loggingTo: method by and varying the milliseconds down to 1 i've gotten better behavior out of the headless squeam pws vm. It now chews up just a few percent or even less than 1 percent of cpu power. It also seems to go to sleep and chew up no cpu power. Can someone please explain what is happening in this PWS loopOnPort:loggingTo: method and how it interacts with the Squeak "simulated" processes... On ocassion the pws still doesn't respond. Squeak looks like it's gone to sleep with 0.05% or less cpu usage... any explainations? When processing the request it seems to chew up just under 5% of the cpu power (on a 300Mhz Intel Pentium 2 processor). This means, with enough ram, that there could be at least 20 copies of squeak running giving instant response per cpu. Two cpus so 40 squeaks! I'll test this some time this week to see actual performance... but I don't have enough ram to hold 40 squeak in ram....oh well... Is there a way to have Smalltalk level code read the virtual machine unix command line arguments... I'd like to have squeak read an optional argument for the port that it should serve pages on... This allows many copies of the same vm to be started simply via a single unix script... All the best, Peter William Lount peter(a)smalltalk.org http://www.smalltalk.org ---------- From: Peter William Lount <peter(a)smalltalk.org> To: Squeak Mail List <squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu> Cc: Kellie Miller <kellie-miller(a)yahoo.com>; Norton, Chris <chrisn(a)Kronos.com>; Tim Rowledge <rowledge(a)interval.com>; Mark A. Schwenk <mas(a)wellthot.com>; Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)isgnw.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De> Subject: Re: PWS headless - Lack of Responsiveless and Double Submits Date: August 25, 1999 4:31 PM Hi, http://www2.smalltalk.org:8080/chat Well I've got it responding instantly! However it's chewing up 99.02% of one of the two cpu's in the server box!!! As a test, and to try to understand what is happening in the PWS main loop process I removed the "(Delay forMilliseconds: 100) wait" from the PWS>loopOnPort:loggingTo:" method. Response time went from delays to instant response. However the darn loop is polling for packet connections on the ServerPort.... Can someone explain what is happening in this loop and what the rational for the Delay is? If it's designed to be polling that would be a poor design choice... since the polling chews up all the cpu power... Is there any way to have Squeak respond to packet arrivals with an interrupt or process waking up? I'd like to create a Apache Module if none exists, modsqueak, for Apache to talk with squeak vm processes via a tcp packet or shared memory. However, it would still require squeak to be able to respond instantly to a incoming packet without having to poll for the darn packet... All the best, Peter William Lount peter(a)smalltalk.org http://www.smalltalk.org ---------- From: Peter William Lount <peter(a)smalltalk.org> To: Squeak Mail List <squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu> Cc: Kellie Miller <kellie-miller(a)yahoo.com>; Norton, Chris <chrisn(a)Kronos.com>; Tim Rowledge <rowledge(a)interval.com>; Mark A. Schwenk <mas(a)wellthot.com>; Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)isgnw.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De> Subject: PWS headless - Lack of Responsiveless and Double Submits Date: August 25, 1999 3:56 PM Hi, Well the headless server now seems to responding most of the time. It still doesn't respond all of the time when a request is made from a web browser. Anythoughts? In addition, once the page does respond subsequent requests form the "post your message" submit button just hang it unless you press the button twice in which case it responds instantly but with a duplicate entry (since it was pressed twice!)... ;--( You can try it (if it doesn't work the first time try again and make sure to try double clicking on the "post your message" button) at this demo site http://www.zoku.net:8080/chat It's very strange in that it consistently won't respond the first time (or two) but if you try again time it's there instantly! This applies for when you activate the page from a browser and when you press the submit button! Anyone got any ideas about this? All the best, Peter William Lount peter(a)smalltalk.org http://www.smalltalk.org

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Re: PWS headless - Lack of Responsiveless and Double Submits
by Peter William Lount 26 Aug '99

26 Aug '99

Hi, http://www2.smalltalk.org:8080/chat Well I've got it responding instantly! However it's chewing up 99.02% of one of the two cpu's in the server box!!! As a test, and to try to understand what is happening in the PWS main loop process I removed the "(Delay forMilliseconds: 100) wait" from the PWS>loopOnPort:loggingTo:" method. Response time went from delays to instant response. However the darn loop is polling for packet connections on the ServerPort.... Can someone explain what is happening in this loop and what the rational for the Delay is? If it's designed to be polling that would be a poor design choice... since the polling chews up all the cpu power... Is there any way to have Squeak respond to packet arrivals with an interrupt or process waking up? I'd like to create a Apache Module if none exists, modsqueak, for Apache to talk with squeak vm processes via a tcp packet or shared memory. However, it would still require squeak to be able to respond instantly to a incoming packet without having to poll for the darn packet... All the best, Peter William Lount peter(a)smalltalk.org http://www.smalltalk.org ---------- From: Peter William Lount <peter(a)smalltalk.org> To: Squeak Mail List <squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu> Cc: Kellie Miller <kellie-miller(a)yahoo.com>; Norton, Chris <chrisn(a)Kronos.com>; Tim Rowledge <rowledge(a)interval.com>; Mark A. Schwenk <mas(a)wellthot.com>; Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)isgnw.CS.Uni-Magdeburg.De> Subject: PWS headless - Lack of Responsiveless and Double Submits Date: August 25, 1999 3:56 PM Hi, Well the headless server now seems to responding most of the time. It still doesn't respond all of the time when a request is made from a web browser. Anythoughts? In addition, once the page does respond subsequent requests form the "post your message" submit button just hang it unless you press the button twice in which case it responds instantly but with a duplicate entry (since it was pressed twice!)... ;--( You can try it (if it doesn't work the first time try again and make sure to try double clicking on the "post your message" button) at this demo site http://www.zoku.net:8080/chat It's very strange in that it consistently won't respond the first time (or two) but if you try again time it's there instantly! This applies for when you activate the page from a browser and when you press the submit button! Anyone got any ideas about this? All the best, Peter William Lount peter(a)smalltalk.org http://www.smalltalk.org

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PWS headless - Lack of Responsiveless and Double Submits
by Peter William Lount 26 Aug '99

26 Aug '99

Hi, Well the headless server now seems to responding most of the time. It still doesn't respond all of the time when a request is made from a web browser. Anythoughts? In addition, once the page does respond subsequent requests form the "post your message" submit button just hang it unless you press the button twice in which case it responds instantly but with a duplicate entry (since it was pressed twice!)... ;--( You can try it (if it doesn't work the first time try again and make sure to try double clicking on the "post your message" button) at this demo site http://www.zoku.net:8080/chat It's very strange in that it consistently won't respond the first time (or two) but if you try again time it's there instantly! This applies for when you activate the page from a browser and when you press the submit button! Anyone got any ideas about this? All the best, Peter William Lount peter(a)smalltalk.org http://www.smalltalk.org

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Re: PWS Headless Crashes solved ... mostly
by Peter William Lount 26 Aug '99

26 Aug '99

Hi, I found "SystemDictiaonry>setGCParameters" method in the 2.5vm changes. It seems to work much better now however it still takes a long time and needs to have the post button clicked TWICE in order for it to respond.... Peter William Lount peter(a)smalltalk.org http://www.smalltalk.org ---------- From: Peter William Lount <peter(a)smalltalk.org> To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu Cc: <Unknown> Subject: Re: PWS Headless Crashes Date: August 25, 1999 3:13 PM Hi, Thanks for this source code Michael. Ah, it looks like I'll need the source for "SystemDictiaonry>setGCParameters" as well as any methods that it invokes! ... self processShutDownList. Cursor write show. save ifTrue: [resuming _ self snapshotPrimitive] "<-- PC frozen here on image file" ifFalse: [resuming _ false]. quit & resuming not ifTrue: [self quitPrimitive]. Cursor normal show. self setGCParameters. resuming ifTrue: [self clearExternalObjects]. self processStartUpList. ... All the best, Peter William Lount peter(a)smalltalk.org http://www.smalltalk.org

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