--On Monday, August 13, 2001 11:02 AM -0400 Kevin Fisher kgf@golden.net wrote:

I was at Chapters (canada) on the weekend and just out of curiosity I punched in your name to their catalogue system...it claims your book is available and ready for order (4-6 weeks), although they had none in stock.

I think I'll pick myself up a copy. :)

[snip]

Speaking as lector rather than author and as one of the lucky few with a copy or two, I really recommend it. I've read all the chapters before (in various drafts) but there's something really nice about a printed volume. I had a good ole time last night with Andrew's Pluggable Primatives chapter, and, of course, *any* exposure to MathMorphs is a plus. The MathMorph chapter is, even given that, quite exceptional.

Excellent read even if I can't *stand* to look at the networking chapter :)

(Which I think is quite good, but I just hate reading stuff that I've written :))

I hope distribution kicks in soon.

Cheers, Bijan Parsia.

On Mon, Aug 13, 2001 at 06:43:07PM -0400, Bijan Parsia wrote:

--On Monday, August 13, 2001 11:02 AM -0400 Kevin Fisher kgf@golden.net wrote:

...

I was at Chapters (canada) on the weekend and just out of curiosity I punched in your name to their catalogue system...it claims your book is available and ready for order (4-6 weeks), although they had none in stock.

I think I'll pick myself up a copy. :)

[snip]

Speaking as lector rather than author and as one of the lucky few with a copy or two, I really recommend it. I've read all the chapters before (in various drafts) but there's something really nice about a printed volume. I had a good ole time last night with Andrew's Pluggable Primatives chapter, and, of course, *any* exposure to MathMorphs is a plus. The MathMorph chapter is, even given that, quite exceptional.

There's something about a printed book that is much nicer than reading it on a monitor. :) I don't mind "software" books for quick reference lookups, but when it comes to sitting down with a nice tea to read, nothing beats real paper.

I'm especially interested in the Pluggable Primitives chapter...I've been meaning to learn more about that.

Excellent read even if I can't *stand* to look at the networking chapter :)

(Which I think is quite good, but I just hate reading stuff that I've written :))

I hope distribution kicks in soon.

Well, I'll order mine from Chapters...hopefully that will inspire them to stock it. It would be a nice change from all those garish "For Dummies" books lining the bookshelves these days.

Maybe I'll try to persuade our local computer book store to stock it...they've already got quite a selection of non-Dummies books (at one time in the past they even had the Purple Book).

Dan Moniz wrote:

Yay! I've been waiting for networking topics to make it into a Squeak text (I'm doing a lot of hacking on protocol stacks [especially BEEP, at the moment] in Squeak).

The book is also online: http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/squeakbook/

Karl

Sounds like maybe the authors should purchase copies at a discount, and the sell them to people on the list, and sell at amazon price,thereby making money off the work they did. If people here want to make a list for such a purpose, my money is on the table.

Edmund

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Glenn S. Fisher wrote:

on 8/13/01 10:27 AM, Mark Guzdial at guzdial@cc.gatech.edu wrote:

...

Have people who pre-ordered received their copies yet?

I ordered a copy from Amazon on June 18. I'm still waiting. I noticed today that it's now priced at $45. It was $39 when I placed my order.

GSF

I am sure Prentice Hall has a standard deep discount for authors. Springer does 30%, no questions asked for anyone who has a paper in their conference proceedings, as far as I know (I have my name on several Springer LNCS Artificial Evolution covers).

btw, my suggestion is not really a joke, Prentice Hall will get their share and more if we do a direct buy, the authors/editors will not be deprived of their cut; only Amazon etc will be impeded from price gouging, we can live with that.

Prentice would probably be prepared to ship a case of these books to ESUG *really* cheaply, if you ask them now.

Edmund

On Mon, 13 Aug 2001, Bijan Parsia wrote:

--On Monday, August 13, 2001 7:49 PM +0200 Edmund Ronald eronald@cmapx.polytechnique.fr wrote:

...

Sounds like maybe the authors should purchase copies at a discount,

Where? Where? I can't seem to purchase them *at all*.

...

and the sell them to people on the list, and sell at amazon price,thereby making money off the work they did. If people here want to make a list for such a purpose, my money is on the table.

How about autographed copies? With errata? ("Damn it, it's *Bijan*, not "Bjarne"!! How could *I* get it wrong!?!?!?") With little crude drawings of what might be a mouse or hedgehog or really fuzzy snake? :)

Cheers, Bijan Parsia.

Mark writes:

...Craig had a... title and title graphic that Ian worked REALLY HARD to make work right in LaTeX...that someone in publication just completely cut out and replaced it with boring text.

D'oh! :) But thanks again, Ian, for making it work! (And thanks again to Mark and Kim and everyone for this book! Yay! I can hardly wait to see it.)

There's a very lo-res version of the title (which doesn't do justice to Ian's version at all) at http://netjam.org/squeakBookChapter/pictures/printTitle.jpg. There's a full-res version of the weird part at http://netjam.org/squeakBookChapter/pictures/printTitleDetail.jpg (the original PSD is there too).

I suppose one could always print out the weird part and paste it in. :)

-C

-- Craig Latta composer and computer scientist craig.latta@netjam.org www.netjam.org crl@watson.ibm.com Smalltalkers do: [:it | All with: Class, (And love: it)]

Well.... a copy finally showed up at my local Borders and I grabbed/bought it before anyone else could :-)......

I've read a few chapters but there is so much information in it that at this point I'm just browsing it & trying not to be overwhelmed :-).

I already have a better understanding of Squeak than I had before last Friday (when I purchased it).

Thanks to all who contributed to it and assembled it !!

:-)

-Andy-

From: Mark Guzdial [mailto:guzdial@cc.gatech.edu] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 14:59

The Edited Volume *is* getting out there, though perhaps Amazon et al. are shipping to those NOT on the list so-far.

--On Friday, September 21, 2001 1:41 AM -0400 Andy Stoffel acs@campus.com wrote:

The "Networking Squeak" chapter in the blue-Squeak book mentions a netchap.cs but it doesn't appear to be on the included CD (Unless I missed it)

No. Blame me, I missed the deadline. Or was confused about the deadline. Or something.

and it's not anywhere I could find at >

http://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/squeakbook/.

Yes, damn.

I was wondering if it could be found anywhere ?

On a hard disk on an unpacked computer in my new digs... :)

It's not really clear (to me anyway) what is in it so I don't even know if it's useful/necessary/unnecessary....

All it contains, as I recall, is a few things to make the "demo" part move smoothly (i.e., to open an HtmlDocument as a rendered document), plus, a slightly simpler installer for the PWS disk files (and a few minor extras).

So, if you get/install the PWS files then there's only a few methods that are pretty easy to recreate...oh! And lex's stuff (the demos at the end. Most of the code, IIRC, is in the chapter anyway.

Soon as I can get it together, I'll dig out and post it.

Thanks for nagging.

Cheers, Bijan Parsia.

For most everyday use, I'd say the Carbon version is the one to use. Pretty much everything seems to work as far as I've tried, and it's better than the Classic version (when using OS X) since you don't have to start up the Classic environment, etc.

The Cocoa version is promising, but last I checked it still has a serious problem with events and/or screen updates, which makes the UI feel quite slow. Plus there are still a few missing features e.g. full screen mode. Eventually these things will be addressed, I'm guessing.

(I personally switched back to using Squeak on OS 9, solely because there wasn't 3-button mouse support available on OS X. Although I believe Marcel was adding support for this to the Cocoa version.)

- Doug Way dway@riskmetrics.com

Andy Stoffel wrote:

[I couldn't find this information anywhere (mailing list or minnow)]

If I understand it correctly there seem to be several different versions:

• Carbon
• Cocoa
• Classic

Is there a preferred version (I've only played with the Cocoa version so far) ? And a list of which one has what (if any ) feature running under Mac OS X ? [eg. I've noticed full screen doesn't seem to work in the Cocoa version - is anything else not working in it?]

Thanks

-Andy-

This reminds me that the OS X information on the squeak.org download page is a little out of date... it doesn't mention anything about the Carbon version. Perhaps the text could be updated to point to the 3.0/mac directory of the ftp site to find the current Carbon/Cocoa VM's rather than hardcoding a link to an old VM.

While I was thinking about this, I updated the DownloadForMacintosh swiki page with some info on OS X downloads.

- Doug Way dway@riskmetrics.com

Doug Way wrote:

For most everyday use, I'd say the Carbon version is the one to use. Pretty much everything seems to work as far as I've tried, and it's better than the Classic version (when using OS X) since you don't have to start up the Classic environment, etc.

The Cocoa version is promising, but last I checked it still has a serious problem with events and/or screen updates, which makes the UI feel quite slow. Plus there are still a few missing features e.g. full screen mode. Eventually these things will be addressed, I'm guessing.

(I personally switched back to using Squeak on OS 9, solely because there wasn't 3-button mouse support available on OS X. Although I believe Marcel was adding support for this to the Cocoa version.)

• Doug Way dway@riskmetrics.com

Andy Stoffel wrote:

...

[I couldn't find this information anywhere (mailing list or minnow)]

If I understand it correctly there seem to be several different versions:

• Carbon
• Cocoa
• Classic

Is there a preferred version (I've only played with the Cocoa version so far) ? And a list of which one has what (if any ) feature running under Mac OS X ? [eg. I've noticed full screen doesn't seem to work in the Cocoa version - is anything else not working in it?]

Thanks

-Andy-

[I couldn't find this information anywhere (mailing list or minnow)]

If I understand it correctly there seem to be several different versions:

• Carbon
• Cocoa
• Classic

Is there a preferred version (I've only played with the Cocoa version so far) ? And a list of which one has what (if any ) feature running under Mac OS X ? [eg. I've noticed full screen doesn't seem to work in the Cocoa version - is anything else not working in it?]

Thanks

-Andy-

Ah, a good question, I don't know. However the difference I know about are:

The classic and carbon versions use the same code base, baring some 68K, & carbon specific features. But the Carbon version differs from the classic version in the following areas.

a> Navigation services is different, which appears only if you choose an image. b> No serial port or joystick or MIDI c> Sound playback uses a different logic (no one has complained about that) d> Memory is allocated then resized at 1GB to enable Squeak under OS-X to grow up to 1GB. Under classic or OS-9 memory is fixed at what the partition size is. e> The carbon version might sleep for 16ms if things are idle, this prevents CPU usage from being 100% all the time. f> OS-X carbon full screen support has a bug you've not found yet.

So which to use. Well if you boot between os-x and classic then perhaps the carbon version is better. Having squeak run as a carbon version under os-x means you don't need to worry about memory size issues and how your work gets disrupted when MS Word causes classic to crash.

The Cocoa version, well you'll need to look at functionality and performance. It is afterall a newly written code base and uses obj-c so in some respects doesn't have all the messy code found in the mac version that was written over the last N years. Then again does it behave in the same manner (bugs and all?)

Part of the problem right now is that we still need a classic version to allow pre system 9.x or was that pre system 8.6 users to use Squeak. Maybe in a year we'll get to the point where we can run a pure carbon version.

Oh, and my understanding (limited knowledge gained in the crypts of paris) was that Jitter 4 would be a pure OS-X version.