Hello,
I'm currently studying the Scratch code. The image I have (the BYOB 1.3 image) has a Smalltalk version of 'MIT Squeak 0.9.4 (June 1, 2003)'.
How could I find the original corresponding base Squeak image (that is, the same image without Scratch code) ?
Stef
On 29/01/13 13:50, Stéphane Rollandin wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently studying the Scratch code. The image I have (the BYOB 1.3 image) has a Smalltalk version of 'MIT Squeak 0.9.4 (June 1, 2003)'.
How could I find the original corresponding base Squeak image (that is, the same image without Scratch code) ?
Stef
In the root project it says it is based on 2.8 which would be here: ftp://ftp.squeak.org/2.8/
On 29/01/13 13:50, Stéphane Rollandin wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently studying the Scratch code. The image I have (the BYOB 1.3 image) has a Smalltalk version of 'MIT Squeak 0.9.4 (June 1, 2003)'.
How could I find the original corresponding base Squeak image (that is, the same image without Scratch code) ?
Stef
more specifically: ftp://ftp.squeak.org/2.8/files/
In the root project there is a list of changes made to 2.8 along with some image prep actions. Are you migrating Scratch to a newer image?
Only if that appears to be manageable. One of my daughters loves Scratch and it would be nice if I could expand it to my (and her) tastes. Now BYOB 3.1 is already very nice as it is.
But I'm curious...
Stef
On 29.01.2013, at 20:11, Stéphane Rollandin lecteur@zogotounga.net wrote:
In the root project there is a list of changes made to 2.8 along with some image prep actions. Are you migrating Scratch to a newer image?
Only if that appears to be manageable. One of my daughters loves Scratch and it would be nice if I could expand it to my (and her) tastes. Now BYOB 3.1 is already very nice as it is.
But I'm curious...
Stef
Well, if you just want to modify it then there is no need for porting, right? Just use the image as it is.
If you want to us a modern squeak, then someone else already extracted the important bits, which might be a good starting point:
http://www.squeaksource.com/nscratch.html
- Bert -
Well, if you just want to modify it then there is no need for porting, right? Just use the image as it is.
If I intend to inject some muO stuff in it, that won't do...
I'll have a look, thanks.
Stef
You know that you can "shift click" into the top half of the R of SCRATCH on the top left of Scratch -- then open the rabbit hole via "turn fill screen off"...
Cheers
Markus
On 29.01.2013, at 21:00, Stéphane Rollandin wrote:
Well, if you just want to modify it then there is no need for porting, right? Just use the image as it is.
If I intend to inject some muO stuff in it, that won't do...
I'll have a look, thanks.
Stef
On 1/29/13, Markus Gälli gaelli@emergent.de wrote:
You know that you can "shift click" into the top half of the R of SCRATCH on the top left of Scratch -- then open the rabbit hole via "turn fill screen off"...
Cheers
Markus
Thank you for the tip, Markus.
Interesting to note that success of an application does not depend on the age of the image in this case. Nostalgia.... MVC only.
--Hannes
On 2013-01-29, at 21:29, "H. Hirzel" hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/29/13, Markus Gälli gaelli@emergent.de wrote:
You know that you can "shift click" into the top half of the R of SCRATCH on the top left of Scratch -- then open the rabbit hole via "turn fill screen off"...
Cheers
Markus
Thank you for the tip, Markus.
Interesting to note that success of an application does not depend on the age of the image in this case. Nostalgia.... MVC only.
Huh? Scratch is implemented in Morphic.
- Bert -
Scratch beta 2.0 was just released re-implemented in flash today: http://beta.scratch.mit.edu/projects/editor/
Unfortunately we don't have Morphic for vectors -- do we? Might be a killer app on android tablets and other platforms which don't allow flash but would allow sharing of projects.
Markus
On 29.01.2013, at 21:35, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 2013-01-29, at 21:29, "H. Hirzel" hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/29/13, Markus Gälli gaelli@emergent.de wrote:
You know that you can "shift click" into the top half of the R of SCRATCH on the top left of Scratch -- then open the rabbit hole via "turn fill screen off"...
Cheers
Markus
Thank you for the tip, Markus.
Interesting to note that success of an application does not depend on the age of the image in this case. Nostalgia.... MVC only.
Huh? Scratch is implemented in Morphic.
- Bert -
On 1/29/13, Markus Gälli gaelli@emergent.de wrote:
Scratch beta 2.0 was just released re-implemented in flash today: http://beta.scratch.mit.edu/projects/editor/
What about snap (JavaScript implementation)?
http://chirp.scratchr.org/dl/experimental/JsMorphic/snap.html
It should run on tablets.
The directory is open
http://chirp.scratchr.org/dl/experimental/JsMorphic/
The implementation of Morphic.js is very readable.
--Hannes
Unfortunately we don't have Morphic for vectors -- do we? Might be a killer app on android tablets and other platforms which don't allow flash but would allow sharing of projects.
Markus
On 29.01.2013, at 21:35, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 2013-01-29, at 21:29, "H. Hirzel" hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote:
On 1/29/13, Markus Gälli gaelli@emergent.de wrote:
You know that you can "shift click" into the top half of the R of SCRATCH on the top left of Scratch -- then open the rabbit hole via "turn fill screen off"...
Cheers
Markus
Thank you for the tip, Markus.
Interesting to note that success of an application does not depend on the age of the image in this case. Nostalgia.... MVC only.
Huh? Scratch is implemented in Morphic.
- Bert -
I think for music (muO) Stephane is better off with Squeak or Pharo implementations of Scratch, as Bert suggested. Nevertheless, Hannes Hirzel wrote a very interesting post:
What about snap (JavaScript implementation)?
http://chirp.scratchr.org/dl/experimental/JsMorphic/snap.html
It should run on tablets.
SNAP! is version 4 of BYOB, so it will have the fun computer-sciency bits that BYOB added to Scratch, and which should give Scratch a higher ceiling.
You should also find Jens Moenig's two pre-release articles interesting: http://www.chirp.scratchr.org/blog/?p=39 ("Enjoy it on your iPad!") http://www.chirp.scratchr.org/blog/?p=34
Markus Gaelli wrote:
Unfortunately we don't have Morphic for vectors -- do we? Might be a killer app on android tablets and other platforms which don't allow flash but would allow sharing of projects.
I might be wrong, but I think Dan Ingalls's Lively Kernel research is Morphic for vectors (specifically SVG)
(The Google Play store has the Adobe Air client for ARMv7 upwards. But HTML5 is a lot less hassle for users. Didn't Adobe announce an end-of-life plan for its Flash/Shockwave/Air clients in favour of HTML5?)
In my opinion, Scratch, as a bitmap app, already has potential to be a killer app on tablets and smartphones.
Yet if someone builds collaborative toys and games around a vector and touch-based Morphic, I think they will be embarking on a rewarding project.
On the same topic, we need great ideas for a touch user experience for Morphic Etoys over at Squeakland. It is pretty urgent as the single-touch OLPC tablet is out soon, and those lovely scripting tiles need fine motor control, tiny fingers, a two-button mouse and a keyboard.
http://squeakland.org/discuss/squeakland/
Have fun! David
I believe that Lively was switched to canvas.
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 9:03 AM, David Corking lists@dcorking.com wrote:
I think for music (muO) Stephane is better off with Squeak or Pharo implementations of Scratch, as Bert suggested. Nevertheless, Hannes Hirzel wrote a very interesting post:
What about snap (JavaScript implementation)?
http://chirp.scratchr.org/dl/experimental/JsMorphic/snap.html
It should run on tablets.
SNAP! is version 4 of BYOB, so it will have the fun computer-sciency bits that BYOB added to Scratch, and which should give Scratch a higher ceiling.
You should also find Jens Moenig's two pre-release articles interesting: http://www.chirp.scratchr.org/blog/?p=39 ("Enjoy it on your iPad!") http://www.chirp.scratchr.org/blog/?p=34
Markus Gaelli wrote:
Unfortunately we don't have Morphic for vectors -- do we? Might be a killer app on android tablets and other platforms which don't allow flash but would allow sharing of projects.
I might be wrong, but I think Dan Ingalls's Lively Kernel research is Morphic for vectors (specifically SVG)
(The Google Play store has the Adobe Air client for ARMv7 upwards. But HTML5 is a lot less hassle for users. Didn't Adobe announce an end-of-life plan for its Flash/Shockwave/Air clients in favour of HTML5?)
In my opinion, Scratch, as a bitmap app, already has potential to be a killer app on tablets and smartphones.
Yet if someone builds collaborative toys and games around a vector and touch-based Morphic, I think they will be embarking on a rewarding project.
On the same topic, we need great ideas for a touch user experience for Morphic Etoys over at Squeakland. It is pretty urgent as the single-touch OLPC tablet is out soon, and those lovely scripting tiles need fine motor control, tiny fingers, a two-button mouse and a keyboard.
http://squeakland.org/discuss/squeakland/
Have fun! David
Chris Hogan wrote:
I believe that Lively was switched to canvas.
Good point. I had forgotten about that, though I don't think they threw away the SVG stuff.
If I understand correctly they used Morphic's canvas as an abstraction over a choice of SVG or HTML Canvas. I can't really picture that in my head, perhaps because I think of Morphic's canvas as a sheet of pixels.
A Google search turned up a fascinating book the Lively Kernel team published last year, which has some comments about SVG.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bks-mQ6lktYC&lpg=PA12&ots=W6ZKhGh...
Have fun! David
On 1/29/13, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
Huh? Scratch is implemented in Morphic.
- Bert -
Yes, indeed, you are right. I was mislead by the appearance of the SystemBrowser.
--Hannes
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 08:46:28PM +0000, H. Hirzel wrote:
On 1/29/13, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
Huh? Scratch is implemented in Morphic.
- Bert -
Yes, indeed, you are right. I was mislead by the appearance of the SystemBrowser.
--Hannes
Well, it was implemented in an image for which MVC was still fully functional. Does that count?
'finish ToolBuilder support for MVC debugger' notMyResponsibility
;-)
Dave
p.s. Jokes aside, I really *would* like to get MVC working properly again, while also maintaining its status as a reloadable package. I really wish Andreas could be here to offer guidance and counsel, but I'm sure we can figure it out on our own, it just might take a little longer. I think I'm going to make that a personal objective for 2013.
On 2013-01-29, at 16:02, Stéphane Rollandin lecteur@zogotounga.net wrote:
Thanks !
Do you think there are differences between 2.8 and MIT 0.9.4 ?
Stef
Most likely. Born-in-the-wool Smalltalkers like John treat Squeak as a whole personal system and touch up whatever is needed to make it better suit their purpose. I'm pretty sure you would find changes all over the place.
- Bert -
There is some info here:
http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Source_Code
Karl
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 5:30 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.dewrote:
On 2013-01-29, at 16:02, Stéphane Rollandin lecteur@zogotounga.net wrote:
Thanks !
Do you think there are differences between 2.8 and MIT 0.9.4 ?
Stef
Most likely. Born-in-the-wool Smalltalkers like John treat Squeak as a whole personal system and touch up whatever is needed to make it better suit their purpose. I'm pretty sure you would find changes all over the place.
- Bert -
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Bert Freudenberg -
Chris Hogan -
David Corking -
David T. Lewis -
Derek O'Connell -
H. Hirzel -
karl ramberg -
Markus Gälli -
Stéphane Rollandin