It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny!
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zip
Please bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog.
Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done."
Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
On 27 January 2014 16:51, Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com wrote:
It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny!
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zip
Please bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog.
Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done."
Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
Thanks, Chris!
I'll take it to the UK Smalltalk User Group tonight.
frank
Hi,
wanted to start banging, opened a MC Browser to try my apps, selected the local package cache and on clicking 'open' it started to update from trunk and asked for a user name for source.squeak.org/trunk, suggesting cmm.
By now I hit cancel 33 times, each time a mcz was downloaded and installed.
I'll continue reporting
Cheers
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 17:51, schrieb Chris Muller:
It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny!
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zipPlease bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog.
Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done."
Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
Killed the image after 56 files
The update URL was correctly set to 4.5 but it loaded from trunk, no update related preference would change this.
Loaded my mcz by dragging it on the desktop, opened a browser which via some animation slid into making a button unreadable. Each click into a list started another animation of resizing the browser panes.
How can I stop this? This really is distracting. Inspectors also animate, as well as the debugger which is extremely unhelpful.
And there is no welcome Workspace open. Though closing them is an annoyance to people like me I still vote for having them open like prior releases.
Cheers,
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 18:51, schrieb Herbert König:
Hi,
wanted to start banging, opened a MC Browser to try my apps, selected the local package cache and on clicking 'open' it started to update from trunk and asked for a user name for source.squeak.org/trunk, suggesting cmm.
By now I hit cancel 33 times, each time a mcz was downloaded and installed.
I'll continue reporting
Cheers
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 17:51, schrieb Chris Muller:
It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny!
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zipPlease bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog.
Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done."
Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
Hi,
I typed while I tested so it sounds a harsh. Sorry, this was not intended. I really appreciate the work being done here!
I see this as a tiny glitch which leaves me helpless nonetheless. While I'm at it, I changed the insertion point color from red to black.
Cheers,
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 19:19, schrieb Herbert König:
Killed the image after 56 files
The update URL was correctly set to 4.5 but it loaded from trunk, no update related preference would change this.
Loaded my mcz by dragging it on the desktop, opened a browser which via some animation slid into making a button unreadable. Each click into a list started another animation of resizing the browser panes.
How can I stop this? This really is distracting. Inspectors also animate, as well as the debugger which is extremely unhelpful.
And there is no welcome Workspace open. Though closing them is an annoyance to people like me I still vote for having them open like prior releases.
Cheers,
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 18:51, schrieb Herbert König:
Hi,
wanted to start banging, opened a MC Browser to try my apps, selected the local package cache and on clicking 'open' it started to update from trunk and asked for a user name for source.squeak.org/trunk, suggesting cmm.
By now I hit cancel 33 times, each time a mcz was downloaded and installed.
I'll continue reporting
Cheers
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 17:51, schrieb Chris Muller:
It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny!
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zipPlease bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog.
Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done."
Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 7:19 PM, Herbert König herbertkoenig@gmx.netwrote:
Killed the image after 56 files
The update URL was correctly set to 4.5 but it loaded from trunk, no update related preference would change this.
Loaded my mcz by dragging it on the desktop, opened a browser which via some animation slid into making a button unreadable. Each click into a list started another animation of resizing the browser panes.
How can I stop this? This really is distracting. Inspectors also animate, as well as the debugger which is extremely unhelpful.
These are Smart Horizontal and vertical splitters preference
Cheers, Karl
And there is no welcome Workspace open. Though closing them is an annoyance to people like me I still vote for having them open like prior releases.
Cheers,
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 18:51, schrieb Herbert König:
Hi,
wanted to start banging, opened a MC Browser to try my apps, selected the local package cache and on clicking 'open' it started to update from trunk and asked for a user name for source.squeak.org/trunk, suggesting cmm.
By now I hit cancel 33 times, each time a mcz was downloaded and installed.
I'll continue reporting
Cheers
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 17:51, schrieb Chris Muller:
It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny!
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zipPlease bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog.
Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done."
Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
Thanks Karl,
that helps a lot.
What do others think of this preference?
It may work well on big monitors, on a Laptop it always leaves one pane to small because the overall window is too small.
Otherwise I ran into nothing while testing my own apps.
Cheers,
Herbert Am 27.01.2014 20:00, schrieb karl ramberg:
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 7:19 PM, Herbert König <herbertkoenig@gmx.net mailto:herbertkoenig@gmx.net> wrote:
Killed the image after 56 files The update URL was correctly set to 4.5 but it loaded from trunk, no update related preference would change this. Loaded my mcz by dragging it on the desktop, opened a browser which via some animation slid into making a button unreadable. Each click into a list started another animation of resizing the browser panes. How can I stop this? This really is distracting. Inspectors also animate, as well as the debugger which is extremely unhelpful.These are Smart Horizontal and vertical splitters preference
Cheers, Karl
And there is no welcome Workspace open. Though closing them is an annoyance to people like me I still vote for having them open like prior releases. Cheers, Herbert Am 27.01.2014 18:51, schrieb Herbert König: Hi, wanted to start banging, opened a MC Browser to try my apps, selected the local package cache and on clicking 'open' it started to update from trunk and asked for a user name for source.squeak.org/trunk <http://source.squeak.org/trunk>, suggesting cmm. By now I hit cancel 33 times, each time a mcz was downloaded and installed. I'll continue reporting Cheers Herbert Am 27.01.2014 17:51, schrieb Chris Muller: It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny! http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zip Please bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog. Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done." Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
On 27-01-2014, at 10:19 AM, Herbert König herbertkoenig@gmx.net wrote:
opened a browser which via some animation slid into making a button unreadable. Each click into a list started another animation of resizing the browser panes.
How can I stop this? This really is distracting. Inspectors also animate, as well as the debugger which is extremely unhelpful.
Ooh, yuck. Now that’s a nasty bit of unwarranted UI flummery. Please let’s turn that off by default, at the very least.
And there is no welcome Workspace open. Though closing them is an annoyance to people like me I still vote for having them open like prior releases.
I concur. Something open by default that explains what the this weird looking window is and why I don’t want to just close it right away and go back to a nice, safe, familiar TECO terminal and start typing JCL cards.
I see that we have a quite large collection of help-ish things under ‘Help’; I don’t think I’ve ever looked there before ;-) The problem immediately apparent is that we have a collection, not a simple and intelligible system. 4 workspaces, an application sort of window, another workspace, a submenu of workspaces, an application thing that looks a bit like the ancient Windows help stuff I recall from Windows 3.1, and then another application that looks like a variant of the previous one (and actually includes it, I see) with some possibly useful info but not much. It needs at the least some content in the initial view!
I fear we’re likely to confuse more than help in too many situations. Surely we ought at least fold all those things into the one help browser to gather everything into one place. Then we can consider how to actually explain stuff a bit better.
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Ubi dubium ibi libertas
Anyone else able to reproduce this, I can't..
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Herbert König herbertkoenig@gmx.net wrote:
Hi,
wanted to start banging, opened a MC Browser to try my apps, selected the local package cache and on clicking 'open' it started to update from trunk and asked for a user name for source.squeak.org/trunk, suggesting cmm.
By now I hit cancel 33 times, each time a mcz was downloaded and installed.
I'll continue reporting
Cheers
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 17:51, schrieb Chris Muller:
It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny!
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zipPlease bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog.
Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done."
Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
Retried with freshly downloaded image and VM, same result.
Win7 home premium 64 Bit, Cog 13.33.267.
Disabling IPV6 doesn't help.
Same result with Win XP home 32 Bit in a current Virtual Box.
Same result if I "unplug" the network connections in this VM.
Dusted off my old Laptop, Win XP, same result.
This happens with all repositorys listed in MC Browser.
Cheers,
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 22:52, schrieb Chris Muller:
Anyone else able to reproduce this, I can't..
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Herbert König herbertkoenig@gmx.net wrote:
Hi,
wanted to start banging, opened a MC Browser to try my apps, selected the local package cache and on clicking 'open' it started to update from trunk and asked for a user name for source.squeak.org/trunk, suggesting cmm.
By now I hit cancel 33 times, each time a mcz was downloaded and installed.
I'll continue reporting
Cheers
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 17:51, schrieb Chris Muller:
It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny!
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zipPlease bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog.
Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done."
Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
On 27.01.2014, at 22:52, Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone else able to reproduce this, I can't..
Happens for me just as Herbert described it. You would be the only who can't reproduce it :)
Because on your machine the package cache directory stored in the image will exist, so it would continue to use that one.
ReleaseBuilder should nil out MCCacheRepository's "default" class inst var.
And please make the pane resizing go away.
- Bert -
On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Herbert König herbertkoenig@gmx.net wrote:
Hi,
wanted to start banging, opened a MC Browser to try my apps, selected the local package cache and on clicking 'open' it started to update from trunk and asked for a user name for source.squeak.org/trunk, suggesting cmm.
By now I hit cancel 33 times, each time a mcz was downloaded and installed.
I'll continue reporting
Cheers
Herbert
Am 27.01.2014 17:51, schrieb Chris Muller:
It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny!
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zip
Please bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog.
Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done."
Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
- Bert -
Hi Chris--
Thanks for all your work on this!
This sort of testing is the best reason I have for using virtual machines a la Parallels etc. I grab a virgin system (ideally with a guest OS which is different from the one I use for primary development) and do a fresh install as an end-user would.
And if you use a cloud-based host (EC2, Azure, Google Cloud, etc.) then we can share results easily.
thanks again,
-C
-- Craig Latta www.netjam.org/resume + 1 510 984 8117 +31 20 893 2796
On 27-01-2014, at 1:52 PM, Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone else able to reproduce this, I can't..
Probably because you have some set-up initialised ok - it’s after your uid after all.
All I did was follow Herbert’s recipe open the image Tools->Monticello Browser -> select the local path at the top of the list-> Open
Cancel does you no good.
As an aside for later consideration, we’ve really lost something somewhere with regard to debugging. Just where can one go from an open dialogue like that to trace back to the cause of the problem? You can’t hit the break key-combo because that just gets you to the event loop. Exploring the morph(s) of the dialogue seems to go nowhere that I can find.
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim this blank intentionally left spaced
If you decide to put up a "Known Issues" workspace, then the WriteStream>>NextChunkPut: method needs a self flush at the end to enable class comments to be saved on certain linux.
The issue is a glibc issue as described here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=956376
Thanks for your hard work.
tty.
On 28.01.2014, at 00:12, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org wrote:
As an aside for later consideration, we’ve really lost something somewhere with regard to debugging. Just where can one go from an open dialogue like that to trace back to the cause of the problem? You can’t hit the break key-combo because that just gets you to the event loop. Exploring the morph(s) of the dialogue seems to go nowhere that I can find.
Cmd-dot worked for me. And as suspected, it's the effing MC proxy stuff, yet again.
I'm sorry Chris, I am not ever going to like it. And I will vote for shipping 4.5 with *full* ancestry information. And *not* turning on the proxyfication. You can do that in your own image, but please do not force it onto the rest of us. The release must be self-contained, and not having to call back to the mothership whenever it feels like it.
Full stack below.
- Bert -
[] in DelayWaitTimeout>>wait BlockClosure>>ensure: DelayWaitTimeout>>wait Semaphore>>waitTimeoutMSecs: Socket>>waitForDataFor:ifClosed:ifTimedOut: SocketStream>>waitForData SocketStream>>receiveData SocketStream>>upToAll:limit: SocketStream>>upToAll: HTTPSocket class>>httpRequest:url:headers:content:response: HTTPSocket class>>httpGetDocument:args:accept:request: HTTPSocket class>>httpGet:args:accept:request: HTTPSocket class>>httpGet:args:user:passwd: [] in MCHttpRepository>>readStreamForFileNamed:do: BlockClosure>>on:do: [] in MCHttpRepository>>displayProgress:during: [] in [] in MorphicUIManager>>displayProgress:at:from:to:during: BlockClosure>>on:do: [] in MorphicUIManager>>displayProgress:at:from:to:during: BlockClosure>>ensure: MorphicUIManager>>displayProgress:at:from:to:during: ProgressInitiationException>>defaultResumeValue ProgressInitiationException(Exception)>>resume ProgressInitiationException>>defaultAction UndefinedObject>>handleSignal: MethodContext(ContextPart)>>handleSignal: MethodContext(ContextPart)>>handleSignal: MethodContext(ContextPart)>>handleSignal: ProgressInitiationException(Exception)>>signal ProgressInitiationException>>display:at:from:to:during: ProgressInitiationException class>>display:at:from:to:during: ByteString(String)>>displayProgressAt:from:to:during: ByteString(String)>>displayProgressFrom:to:during: MCHttpRepository>>displayProgress:during: MCHttpRepository>>readStreamForFileNamed:do: MCHttpRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>versionReaderForFileNamed:do: [] in MCHttpRepository>>versionReaderForFileNamed: Dictionary>>at:ifAbsent: MCHttpRepository>>versionReaderForFileNamed: MCHttpRepository>>versionReaderForFileNamed:do: MCHttpRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>loadVersionFromFileNamed: [] in [] in MCHttpRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>versionNamed: BlockClosure>>on:do: [] in MCHttpRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>versionNamed: Dictionary>>at:ifAbsent: MCHttpRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>versionNamed: [] in MCHttpRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>versionWithInfo:ifAbsent: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCHttpRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>versionWithInfo:ifAbsent: MCHttpRepository(MCRepository)>>versionWithInfo: [] in MCRepositoryGroup>>versionWithInfo:ifNone: [] in [] in MCRepositoryGroup>>repositoriesDo: BlockClosure>>on:do: [] in MCRepositoryGroup>>repositoriesDo: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCRepositoryGroup>>repositoriesDo: MCRepositoryGroup>>versionWithInfo:ifNone: MCRepositoryGroup>>versionWithInfo: [] in MCInfoProxy>>materializeInfo [] in MCWorkingAncestry(MCAncestry)>>breadthFirstAncestorsDo: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCWorkingAncestry(MCAncestry)>>breadthFirstAncestorsDo: MCInfoProxy>>materializeInfo MCProxyMaterialization>>defaultAction UndefinedObject>>handleSignal: MethodContext(ContextPart)>>handleSignal: MCProxyMaterialization(Exception)>>signal MCProxyMaterialization class>>signalMaterializing: MCInfoProxy>>becomeAncestry MCInfoProxy>>doesNotUnderstand: #hash Set>>scanFor: Set>>includes: [] in [] in MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>identifyLoadedAndInherited: [] in MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: [] in MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: [] in MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: [] in MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: [] in MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: [] in MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: [] in MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: [] in MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: [] in MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: [] in MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCVersionInfo(MCAncestry)>>ancestorsDoWhileTrue: [] in MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>identifyLoadedAndInherited: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>identifyLoadedAndInherited: [] in MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>refreshEmphasis Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>refreshEmphasis [] in MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>initializeVersionNames MCCacheRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>cacheAllFileNamesDuring: MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>initializeVersionNames [] in MCFileRepositoryInspector>>initializeVersionNames MCCacheRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>cacheAllFileNamesDuring: MCFileRepositoryInspector>>initializeVersionNames MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>versionNames [] in MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>packageList BlockClosure>>ensure: MCCacheRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>cacheAllFileNamesDuring: MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>packageList MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>packageSelection: MCFileRepositoryInspector(MCRepositoryInspector)>>setRepository:workingCopy: MCFileRepositoryInspector class(MCRepositoryInspector class)>>repository:workingCopy: MCCacheRepository(MCFileBasedRepository)>>morphicOpen: MCWorkingCopyBrowser>>openRepository PluggableButtonMorphPlus(PluggableButtonMorph)>>performAction PluggableButtonMorphPlus>>performAction [] in PluggableButtonMorphPlus(PluggableButtonMorph)>>mouseUp: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: PluggableButtonMorphPlus(PluggableButtonMorph)>>mouseUp: PluggableButtonMorphPlus>>mouseUp: PluggableButtonMorphPlus(Morph)>>handleMouseUp: MouseButtonEvent>>sentTo: PluggableButtonMorphPlus(Morph)>>handleEvent: PluggableButtonMorphPlus(Morph)>>handleFocusEvent: [] in HandMorph>>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: BlockClosure>>on:do: PasteUpMorph>>becomeActiveDuring: HandMorph>>sendFocusEvent:to:clear: HandMorph>>sendEvent:focus:clear: HandMorph>>sendMouseEvent: HandMorph>>handleEvent: HandMorph>>processEvents [] in WorldState>>doOneCycleNowFor: Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do: WorldState>>handsDo: WorldState>>doOneCycleNowFor: WorldState>>doOneCycleFor: PasteUpMorph>>doOneCycle [] in MorphicProject>>spawnNewProcess [] in BlockClosure>>newProcess
As an aside for later consideration, we’ve really lost something somewhere with regard to debugging. Just where can one go from an open dialogue like that to trace back to the cause of the problem? You can’t hit the break key-combo because that just gets you to the event loop. Exploring the morph(s) of the dialogue seems to go nowhere that I can find.
Cmd-dot worked for me. And as suspected, it's the effing MC proxy stuff, yet again.
I knew about this bug a long time ago, but forgot about it.
I'm sorry Chris, I am not ever going to like it. And I will vote for shipping 4.5 with *full* ancestry information. And *not* turning on the proxyfication.
Given the bug and the timing, no problem, but...
You can do that in your own image, but please do not force it onto the rest of us. The release must be self-contained, and not having to call back to the mothership whenever it feels like it.
.. there is not much logic to this argument. Calling back to the mothership happens when you do any of a number of operations in Squeak.
Bert, it's fine to not like the implementation, but please tell me you also don't like the ever-growing unsustainable ancestry model, right?
I'm not beholden to this solution with Proxy's. Come up with a different solution that solves the problem in 4.6 along with the problem of always reading _all versions_ of all packages in Trunk for virtually _every_ single operation we do. Make it backward compatible and, oh, make sure everyone _likes_ your solution too..
In the meantime, trunk has become virtually unusable by its being bogged down with so many versions needing constantly downloaded, again and again.
Hi Chris,
nice to see that we are on a good way to release Squeak 4.5. Many bug fixes, many code cleanups... and some not that "polished" new features there. :)
Let me explain my concern with those "Smart Pane Splitters". Automatic, content-aware layouting is a nice idea and many applications out there try to minimize the time that users have to spend for just organizing information on screen. Despite all efforts that go into those neat approaches, we still need to follow up on some basic usability heuristics.
You do not want to slow the user down. Users will accommodate to the pace of the interface. Having to wait some seconds until the layout manager got its work done is not acceptable. This is something even expert users cannot optimize (besides turning that feature off at all). Such layouting is a very frequent action that has to complete as fast as possible. At most 100ms I suppose. (Would have to look up for some response time models such as that from Ben Shneiderman).
I think that predictability of user interactions is even more important. This layout algorithm (and the way you can watch it work) seems unpredictable. Even random. You try to think about what the user wants to see in, for example, the system browser but you actually have no idea whether pane resizing is an issue for the particular programming task at all. In these situations, this layouting gets in the way of users' productivity.
I appreaciate the work that you have done here but this feature of having "Smart Pane Splitters" is not ready to be released and needs more rethinking from a usability perspective: What are the benefits? What are the liabilities? Is it for experts only? Is it for novices only? What is the actual (killer) use case where such a feature can support the programmer?
I do not just vote for turning off the preference by default but for removing its code from the 4.5 image and provide a simple Metacello-Script for loading aftewards. :)
Best, Marcel
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-Squeak-4-5-Release-Candidate-1-tp4739706p4740046.h... Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Some minor remarks:
- The red text cursor/caret with triangles at both ends feels to prominent in the interface - The input box for entering MC repository information is too small by default - The public SqueakSource MetacelloRepository could be added to the list of Monticello repositories - There are some "cmm" left in repository information that should be removed ;)
Best, Marcel
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-Squeak-4-5-Release-Candidate-1-tp4739706p4740082.h... Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Just remember that the point of the 4.5 release candidate is not to fix every single existing bug/issue in Squeak. By all means raise these issues (and bonus points if they're recorded in bugs.squeak.org so volunteers can easily find things to do), but it's largely Chris' call as to what will actually go into 4.5.
frank
On 29 January 2014 12:14, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de wrote:
Some minor remarks:
- The red text cursor/caret with triangles at both ends feels to prominent
in the interface
- The input box for entering MC repository information is too small by
default
- The public SqueakSource MetacelloRepository could be added to the list of
Monticello repositories
- There are some "cmm" left in repository information that should be removed
;)
Best, Marcel
-- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-Squeak-4-5-Release-Candidate-1-tp4739706p4740082.h... Sent from the Squeak - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Hey all,
On 27.01.2014, at 17:51, Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com wrote:
It's ready for your final testing and scrutiny!
http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5alpha/Squeak4.5-13663.zip
Please bang on this! Test it with your apps. Test it in Windows, iOS, Linux. Interpreter and Cog.
Unless we hit any show-stoppers, this will be the one we can call "done."
Thanks to this great community of brilliant developers for making 4.5 a superb release.
I have the feeling that the IPv6 support is not yet working right. I wanted to use our local SqueakSource, which is primarily available via IPv6 though the HPI.
The first time, I got a “connection refused” error, Socket was unable to open a connection to our site.
I tried this (low-level connect) (SocketAddressInformation forHost: '2001:638:807:204::8d59:e178' service: '80' flags: 0 addressFamily: SocketAddressInformation addressFamilyINET6 socketType: SocketAddressInformation socketTypeStream protocol: 0) first connect And it worked.
Then I tried monticello again, and it worked. Then again, the “connection refused” error.
Since the error is spontaneous, I don’t know how to debug :(
Best -Tobias
I have 12 test failures on OSX. Are they expected?
Image ----- /Applications/Smalltalk/Squeak4-2 4.5 Release Candidate/Squeak4.5-13663.image Squeak4.5 latest update: #13663 Current Change Set: Unnamed1 Image format 6505 (32 bit)
Virtual Machine --------------- /Applications/Smalltalk/Build/VMs/Cog.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak Croquet Closure Cog VM [CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.331] Squeak Cog 4.0.2776 Mac OS X built on Aug 22 2013 10:08:05 Compiler: 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5666) (dot 3) platform sources revision VM: r2776 http://www.squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/Cog Plugins: r2545 http://squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/trunk/platforms/Cross/plugins CoInterpreter VMMaker.oscog-eem.331 uuid: 37d2e4b0-2f37-4e2d-8313-c63637785e59 Aug 22 2013 StackToRegisterMappingCogit VMMaker.oscog-eem.333 uuid: 84da9cb8-7f30-4cb7-b4fb-239a11f63b54 Aug 22 2013
SUnit Results ------------- 3488 run, 3452 passes, 23 expected failures, 12 failures, 1 errors, 0 unexpected passes
Failed Tests ------------ (CompiledMethodTest selector: #testMethodClass) debug. (ExceptionTests selector: #testHandlerFromAction) debug. (LocaleTest selector: #testLocaleChanged) debug. (MCEnvironmentLoadTest selector: #testLoadIntoEnvironment) debug. (MCPackageTest selector: #testUnload) debug. (MultiByteFileStreamTest selector: #testLineEndingChunk) debug. (PackageDependencyTest selector: #testMorphic) debug. (ReleaseTest selector: #testNoObsoleteClasses) debug. (SocketTest selector: #testSocketReuse) debug. (SocketTest selector: #testUDP) debug. (TextAttributesScanningTest selector: #testPluggableTextAttribute) debug. (TextAttributesScanningTest selector: #testTextFontReferenceTTC) debug.
Errors ------ (MorphicUIManagerTest selector: #testShowAllBinParts) debug.
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