Hello
I was pointed to http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5/cogvm_2776-1_i386.deb from http://www.squeak.org/Downloads.
It installed successfully on Linux Mint Maya.
I downloaded as well the http://fulloo.info/Downloads/BabyIDE-3a.zip
How do I call the VM from the command line.
squeak --version squeakvm --version
does not work.
thank you for the answer in advance
Hannes
Please try this:
cogvm --version
It all made sense to Ken. And I don’t suppose he figured this would be for general use. And I guess I’d gotten used to it, as I’ve installed it on three systems. I’ll change the script from “cogvm" to “squeak”, which is what people would reasonably expect. It’s a great point. Thank you for raising it. I’ll make a new one.
Chris
On Sep 5, 2014, at 5:57 AM, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote:
Hello
I was pointed to http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5/cogvm_2776-1_i386.deb from http://www.squeak.org/Downloads.
It installed successfully on Linux Mint Maya.
I downloaded as well the http://fulloo.info/Downloads/BabyIDE-3a.zip
How do I call the VM from the command line.
squeak --version squeakvm --version
does not work.
thank you for the answer in advance
Hannes
On 05.09.2014, at 12:17, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote:
Please try this:
cogvm --version
It all made sense to Ken. And I don’t suppose he figured this would be for general use.
It wasn't, and we probably should not distribute it. It was just to keep the server maintenance sane.
Besides, it only works on Debian-derivatives. Redhat derivatives (Fedora, SuSE, etc) use rpm.
And I guess I’d gotten used to it, as I’ve installed it on three systems. I’ll change the script from “cogvm" to “squeak”, which is what people would reasonably expect. It’s a great point. Thank you for raising it. I’ll make a new one.
Indeed. It should be "squeak". However, that "squeak" script should pick the interpreter or cog depending on the image.
In fact, Linux users shouldn't even need a separate VM download, but simply use their package manager to download the VM compiled by their distro. Providing competing packages is working against the distros, rather than with them. There is a clear separation of responsibilities: developers provide source code, distro maintainers provide binaries.
The VMs currently in the distros should work fine even with a 4.5 image, right?
https://packages.qa.debian.org/s/squeak-vm.html https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/squeak-vm
This should be the primary method of getting a Squeak VM on Linux. We just tell the folks to install the "squeak-vm" package from their distro.
*Additionally* we can provide pointers to alternative VMs, and Cog should be on top of the list (advertised as a high-performance VM), but I see no value (though some harm) in repackaging these. I'd make a link to Eliot's directory and advise folks to get the latest. And a pointer to squeakvm.org for all the other VMs.
How does that sound?
- Bert -
PS: We are also working on getting Cog into the distro's Squeak VM packages, which takes time. But eventually this will play out and is the better long-term strategy.
On Sep 5, 2014, at 7:40 AM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.de wrote:
I'd make a link to Eliot's directory and advise folks to get the latest. And a pointer to squeakvm.org http://squeakvm.org/ for all the other VMs.
Great. I’ll do that.
Chris
On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 01:40:41PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 05.09.2014, at 12:17, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote:
Please try this:
cogvm --version
It all made sense to Ken. And I don?t suppose he figured this would be for general use.
It wasn't, and we probably should not distribute it. It was just to keep the server maintenance sane.
Besides, it only works on Debian-derivatives. Redhat derivatives (Fedora, SuSE, etc) use rpm.
And I guess I?d gotten used to it, as I?ve installed it on three systems. I?ll change the script from ?cogvm" to ?squeak?, which is what people would reasonably expect. It?s a great point. Thank you for raising it. I?ll make a new one.
Indeed. It should be "squeak". However, that "squeak" script should pick the interpreter or cog depending on the image.
A technical note - Ian's squeak start script contains all the hooks to do this, but it the near term it is not a practical solution, in part because 64-bit plugins cannot be shared with a 32-bit executable in the installation.
The reality is that cogvm and squeakvm are different, and they should not stomp on each other's name spaces. So I personally think that using the name "cogvm" is a reasonable solution to the current name space conflict.
But regardless of my opinion, a change like that should not be distributed through squeak.org unless the interested parties agree.
At a minimum, Eliot should agree in this case, and it would also be nice if we all can agree on a name convention that works around the current name conflict.
Dave
I went back to the Squeak VM which is offered through the software installation center.
The command squeak is available.
Interestingly the option squeak --version squeak -version squeak -v is not implemented. I assume the VM is pretty old.
--Hannes
On 9/5/14, David T. Lewis lewis@mail.msen.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 01:40:41PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 05.09.2014, at 12:17, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote:
Please try this:
cogvm --version
It all made sense to Ken. And I don?t suppose he figured this would be for general use.
It wasn't, and we probably should not distribute it. It was just to keep the server maintenance sane.
Besides, it only works on Debian-derivatives. Redhat derivatives (Fedora, SuSE, etc) use rpm.
And I guess I?d gotten used to it, as I?ve installed it on three systems. I?ll change the script from ?cogvm" to ?squeak?, which is what people would reasonably expect. It?s a great point. Thank you for raising it. I?ll make a new one.
Indeed. It should be "squeak". However, that "squeak" script should pick the interpreter or cog depending on the image.
A technical note - Ian's squeak start script contains all the hooks to do this, but it the near term it is not a practical solution, in part because 64-bit plugins cannot be shared with a 32-bit executable in the installation.
The reality is that cogvm and squeakvm are different, and they should not stomp on each other's name spaces. So I personally think that using the name "cogvm" is a reasonable solution to the current name space conflict.
But regardless of my opinion, a change like that should not be distributed through squeak.org unless the interested parties agree.
At a minimum, Eliot should agree in this case, and it would also be nice if we all can agree on a name convention that works around the current name conflict.
Dave
On Sat, Sep 06, 2014 at 04:44:48AM +0000, H. Hirzel wrote:
I went back to the Squeak VM which is offered through the software installation center.
The command squeak is available.
Interestingly the option squeak --version squeak -version squeak -v is not implemented. I assume the VM is pretty old.
I tried downloading a VM from Ubuntu, which I assume is the same thing. It was old and did not work properly, at least not on my 64 bit platform.
This is clearly not an acceptable state of affairs, and Bert has been trying to motivate me and others to do something about it.
Dave
--Hannes
On 9/5/14, David T. Lewis lewis@mail.msen.com wrote:
On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 01:40:41PM +0200, Bert Freudenberg wrote:
On 05.09.2014, at 12:17, Chris Cunnington brasspen@gmail.com wrote:
Please try this:
cogvm --version
It all made sense to Ken. And I don?t suppose he figured this would be for general use.
It wasn't, and we probably should not distribute it. It was just to keep the server maintenance sane.
Besides, it only works on Debian-derivatives. Redhat derivatives (Fedora, SuSE, etc) use rpm.
And I guess I?d gotten used to it, as I?ve installed it on three systems. I?ll change the script from ?cogvm" to ?squeak?, which is what people would reasonably expect. It?s a great point. Thank you for raising it. I?ll make a new one.
Indeed. It should be "squeak". However, that "squeak" script should pick the interpreter or cog depending on the image.
A technical note - Ian's squeak start script contains all the hooks to do this, but it the near term it is not a practical solution, in part because 64-bit plugins cannot be shared with a 32-bit executable in the installation.
The reality is that cogvm and squeakvm are different, and they should not stomp on each other's name spaces. So I personally think that using the name "cogvm" is a reasonable solution to the current name space conflict.
But regardless of my opinion, a change like that should not be distributed through squeak.org unless the interested parties agree.
At a minimum, Eliot should agree in this case, and it would also be nice if we all can agree on a name convention that works around the current name conflict.
Dave
Bert writes:
...that "squeak" script should pick the interpreter or cog depending on the image.
In fact, Linux users shouldn't even need a separate VM download, but simply use their package manager to download the VM compiled by their distro. Providing competing packages is working against the distros, rather than with them. There is a clear separation of responsibilities: developers provide source code, distro maintainers provide binaries... We just tell the folks to install the "squeak-vm" package from their distro.
*Additionally* we can provide pointers to alternative VMs, and Cog should be on top of the list (advertised as a high-performance VM), but I see no value (though some harm) in repackaging these. I'd make a link to Eliot's directory and advise folks to get the latest. And a pointer to squeakvm.org for all the other VMs... We are also working on getting Cog into the distro's Squeak VM packages, which takes time. But eventually this will play out and is the better long-term strategy.
...How does that sound?
Seems exactly right to me.
-C
-- Craig Latta netjam.org +31 6 2757 7177 (SMS ok) + 1 415 287 3547 (no SMS)
On Sat, Sep 06, 2014 at 12:20:23PM +0200, Craig Latta wrote:
Bert writes:...that "squeak" script should pick the interpreter or cog depending on the image.
In fact, Linux users shouldn't even need a separate VM download, but simply use their package manager to download the VM compiled by their distro. Providing competing packages is working against the distros, rather than with them. There is a clear separation of responsibilities: developers provide source code, distro maintainers provide binaries... We just tell the folks to install the "squeak-vm" package from their distro.
*Additionally* we can provide pointers to alternative VMs, and Cog should be on top of the list (advertised as a high-performance VM), but I see no value (though some harm) in repackaging these. I'd make a link to Eliot's directory and advise folks to get the latest. And a pointer to squeakvm.org for all the other VMs... We are also working on getting Cog into the distro's Squeak VM packages, which takes time. But eventually this will play out and is the better long-term strategy.
...How does that sound?
Seems exactly right to me.
+1
Sounds absolutely right to me as well, with the small caveat that we don't yet have an agreed way to make the "squeak" script work. But that is just a problem that we need to solve, not a reason for not doing it. What Bert describes is exactly right.
Dave
On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 06:17:32AM -0400, Chris Cunnington wrote:
Please try this:
cogvm --version
It all made sense to Ken. And I don???t suppose he figured this would be for general use. And I guess I???d gotten used to it, as I???ve installed it on three systems. I???ll change the script from ???cogvm" to ???squeak???, which is what people would reasonably expect. It???s a great point. Thank you for raising it. I???ll make a new one.
Chris
Hang on a second. You're making an "official" distribution that differs from what Eliot is distributing, which in turn conflicts with the unix VM on squeakvm.org. I happen to think that using the name "cogvm" to distinguish it from the original "squeak" name (which is already in use for a different flavor of the VM) is a really good idea. But please check to see if Eliot agrees with what you are doing.
To be clear -- I support the idea of giving Eliot's cogvm launch script a different name to distiguish it from Ian's original. But let's make sure people agree with this (especially Eliot in this case) before changing the conventions.
Thanks, Dave
On Sep 5, 2014, at 5:57 AM, H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com wrote:
Hello
I was pointed to http://ftp.squeak.org/4.5/cogvm_2776-1_i386.deb from http://www.squeak.org/Downloads.
It installed successfully on Linux Mint Maya.
I downloaded as well the http://fulloo.info/Downloads/BabyIDE-3a.zip
How do I call the VM from the command line.
squeak --version squeakvm --version
does not work.
thank you for the answer in advance
Hannes
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Chris Cunnington -
Craig Latta -
David T. Lewis -
H. Hirzel