I expect it could be updated to open a Metacello browser after the #ensureMetacello.

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 8:07 PM David T. Lewis lewis@mail.msen.com wrote:

All menu options in Tools and Apps open some kind of tool or app. The #ensureRecentMetacello and #installGitInfrastructure actions are things that I want to do, not tools that I want to open.

Dave

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 05:49:25PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

...

...

Still I'd rather like to keep the Metacello item in the Do menu. Or Apps or Tools.

Done.

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019 at 5:46 PM commits@source.squeak.org wrote:

...

Chris Muller uploaded a new version of Morphic to project The Trunk: http://source.squeak.org/trunk/Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

==================== Summary ====================

Name: Morphic-cmm.1484 Author: cmm Time: 4 April 2019, 5:46:17.398582 pm UUID: 5a57ba6f-fa15-44a3-9581-c919060f0378 Ancestors: Morphic-cmm.1483

Metacello and GitInfrastructure tools are currently the best way to load projects hosted by github.com. Promote installation of the these tools to the Tools menu.

=============== Diff against Morphic-cmm.1483 ===============

Item was added:

• ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
• gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu

•   menu addItem:
  

•           [ : item | item
  

•                    contents: 'Git Infrastructure' translated ;
  

•                    help: 'Load tools for accessing github repositories.' translated ;
  

•                    icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
  

•                    target: Installer ;
  

•                    selector: #installGitInfrastructure ]!
  
  

Item was added:

• ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>metacelloMenuItemOn: (in category 'submenu - tools') -----
• metacelloMenuItemOn: menu

•   menu addItem:
  

•           [ : item | item
  

•                    contents: 'Metacello' translated ;
  

•                    help: 'Install Metacello' translated ;
  

•                    icon: (self colorIcon: Color lightGray) ;
  

•                    target: Installer ;
  

•                    selector: #ensureRecentMetacello ]!
  
  

Item was changed: ----- Method: TheWorldMainDockingBar>>toolsMenuOn: (in category 'construction') ----- toolsMenuOn: aDockingBar

    aDockingBar addItem: [ :item |
            item
                    contents: 'Tools' translated;
                    addSubMenu: [ :menu |
                            self
                                    browserMenuItemOn: menu;
                                    workspaceMenuItemOn: menu;
                                    transcriptMenuItemOn: menu;
                                    testRunnerMenuItemOn: menu;
                                    methodFinderMenuItemOn: menu;
                                    messageNamesMenuItemOn: menu.
                            menu addLine.
                            self

•                                   monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
  

•                                   monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu;
                                    simpleChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
  

•                                   dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu;
  

•                                   monticelloBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
  

•                                   monticelloConfigurationsMenuItemOn: menu ;
  

•                                   metacelloMenuItemOn: menu ;
  

•                                   gitInfrastructureMenuItemOn: menu.
  

•                                   dualChangeSorterMenuItemOn: menu.
                            menu addLine.
                            self
                                    processBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
                                    preferenceBrowserMenuItemOn: menu;
                                    fileListMenuItemOn: menu.
                    ] ]!
  
  

Item was changed:

• (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: '"updated Tools menu"
• TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!

• (PackageInfo named: 'Morphic') postscript: 'TheWorldMainDockingBar updateInstances'!

Hi Marcel, hi Chris,

Am Fr., 5. Apr. 2019 um 08:41 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel < marcel.taeumel@hpi.de>:

The Tools menu is *not* about installing tools but starting them.

Sorry, that was my compromise proposal in the other thread.

Thank you Chris for considering to keep the items around somewhere. But it seems the discussion of where to put them is not over yet.

In the long term, we should find ways to ship such infrastructure in releases without spoiling the (development) trunk.

But if the infrastructure that "spoils" the trunk are development tools, why would you exempt them from the *development* trunk?

Ah so you didn't mean to exempt packages from Trunk images although the packages are part of a release image, but to not include these packages in the Trunk Monticello repository (spoiling that). Did I get that right?

Am Fr., 5. Apr. 2019 um 14:18 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel < marcel.taeumel@hpi.de>:

Hi Jakob,

I think it's related to source.squeak.org and the way code can be managed in the Trunk. We would have to practically clone/copy external projects into the Trunk repo and maintain them ourselves. And be very careful to not make changes that are not reflected in the (external) project repository. Kind of confusing.

Best, Marcel

Am 05.04.2019 08:59:00 schrieb Jakob Reschke forums.jakob@resfarm.de: Hi Marcel, hi Chris,

Am Fr., 5. Apr. 2019 um 08:41 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel < marcel.taeumel@hpi.de>:

...

The Tools menu is *not* about installing tools but starting them.

Sorry, that was my compromise proposal in the other thread.

Thank you Chris for considering to keep the items around somewhere. But it seems the discussion of where to put them is not over yet.

...

In the long term, we should find ways to ship such infrastructure in releases without spoiling the (development) trunk.

But if the infrastructure that "spoils" the trunk are development tools, why would you exempt them from the *development* trunk?

I do not agree that the temporary solution discussed below is acceptable.

Perhaps it is best if I just state exactly what I think should be done:

1) Revert Morphic-cmm.1484. Do this by publishing Morphic-XXX.1485 to roll back the changes.

2) Put the original two doIt methods back into the Do menu. Do this by publishing System-XXX.1062 to add the two entries back into the common request string, or just revert back to the prior version.

My rationale is based on the following:

1) The menu items do not belong in Tools, as previously explained.

2) The entries in the Do menu were added to support university students using Squeak for the first time. This is important.

Dave

On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 03:48:48PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

Hi guys,

Marcel, we had a good discussion in the other thread (The Inbox: System-cmm.1059.mcz) which led to this temporary solution acceptable with at least Jakob and I.

...

The Tools menu is *not* about installing tools but starting them.

I was under the assumption Metacello has a browser and intend for that menu item to open a Metacello browser after the #ensureMetacello. That preserves what Jakob wanted while one-upping the IDE functionality we have today.

...

Also, the "Do" menu is *not* for newcomers but for somewhat experienced programmers that are able to write and use small scripts to optimize the own workflow.

Rather than disagree about what it is, perhaps we can agree that it _isn't_ a place for configuration within release image. These tools deserve a better place than the Do menu, and Squeak deserves to have one unified way to load anything. This takes it from three to two.

...

Just look at what is already in the Tools or Do menu and you can easily see these inherent characteristics. Please try to explain your decisions with more details. What is your perspective on the Tools menu?

My perspective is that SCM "tools" like Simple and Dual Change sorter, Monticello and Monticello Configurations are available under the Tools menu. It therefore makes sense to me that the next-level SCM tool built on top of Monticello would be right there, too. Does Metacello have a browser at all, or will it?

...

For newcomers, they can evaluate a snippet in the workspace that includes installing such infrastructure. Just copy-and-paste from a readme.md or similar. Quite simple.

Agreed, and I would even store such snippets in SqueakMap.

because then I could add additional entries that contained whatever is in the README's, and then, instead of coming back from getting coffee to ONLY have Metacello loaded, I could have _everything_ loaded. But that's not my business except to the extent I want Squeak release images to have the only the right tools in only the right places, so its not too confusing.

...

In the long term, we should find ways to ship such infrastructure in releases without spoiling the (development) trunk.

I hope you mean as dynamically-loadable modules. The release images are too big, IMO, we need to eventually try to get some things out (Etoys) so we can make room to bring more appropriate (core) stuff in.

...

Best, Marcel

Best, Chris

And let's add proposal

0. Keep the entries Installer ensureRecentMetacello. Installer installGitInfrastructure. in the 'do menu' where they have been before. Move Utilities emergencyCollapse. Utilities closeAllDebuggers. to the top position in the 'do menu'.

--Hannes

On 4/6/19, Chris Muller ma.chris.m@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Dave, we're discussing how to integrate these tools into the IDE more elegantly. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can do that. So far, after much discussion, FIVE proposals* have made it to the table, at least one of which is good with both Jakob and I.

1. Tools or Apps menu.
2. Extending the System workspace
3. SqueakMap
4. "ensureMetacello" at the top of README's.
5. Include all of it in trunk

I appreciate your point about the consistency of Tools items opening a window or not, but this is benign and the Do menu is almost certainly not the university's "final solution" to configuration of github projects. Its worth discussing how to elegantly include Squeak in these projects. Please help.

• Chris

Hi Chris,

On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 11:28:46PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

Hi Dave, we're discussing how to integrate these tools into the IDE more elegantly. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can do that. So far, after much discussion, FIVE proposals* have made it to the table, at least one of which is good with both Jakob and I.

1. Tools or Apps menu.
2. Extending the System workspace
3. SqueakMap
4. "ensureMetacello" at the top of README's.
5. Include all of it in trunk

I explained my preference in the last email. You can also find it in the inbox as System-dtl.1059.

I appreciate your point about the consistency of Tools items opening a window or not, but this is benign and the Do menu is almost certainly not the university's "final solution" to configuration of github projects. Its worth discussing how to elegantly include Squeak in these projects. Please help.

I'm quite interested in the topic of how best to use git with Squeak. I see several different approaches in circulation now (in Cuis, in Pharo, and the Squit/Squat tools), and it is not clear to me what is best. Other people on the list have more experience with this than I do, but it seems to be an evolving topic at this point.

I think that the Do menu entries are good enough for now. It's a simple solution to a real problem, and they can be easily removed when a better approach is established.

Dave

On Sat, Apr 06, 2019 at 02:42:23PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

...

On Fri, Apr 05, 2019 at 11:28:46PM -0500, Chris Muller wrote:

...

Hi Dave, we're discussing how to integrate these tools into the IDE more elegantly. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can do that. So far, after much discussion, FIVE proposals* have made it to the table, at least one of which is good with both Jakob and I.

1. Tools or Apps menu.
2. Extending the System workspace
3. SqueakMap
4. "ensureMetacello" at the top of README's.
5. Include all of it in trunk

I explained my preference in the last email. You can also find it in the inbox as System-dtl.1059.

a.k.a., Hannes' proposal 0.

Yes.

Just curious, why the class check? MCFileBasedRepository is a permanent resident in Squeak, and its just encoded in a String so it doesn't create unwanted package dependency, so...?

You're right, it's not a real dependency. It would only fail at runtime, which would be fairly self-explanatory. So maybe the class check should not be done here.

Dave

Hi,

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:06 PM Christoph Thiede < christoph.thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:

Hi,

this commit has added a new reference from Morphic to Installer package, so the PackageDependencyTest complains. Shall I add the package to the expected

dependencies in #testMorphic?

Yes, thanks.

- Chris

What is the effort of moving it to TheWorldMainDockingBar to Tools-Menus in the next days?

Best Hannes

On 9/10/19, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:

In the long term, we should move TheWorldMainDockingBar to "Tools" or "MorphicExtras" or "System".

Best, Marcel Am 10.09.2019 05:24:19 schrieb Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com: Hi,

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:06 PM Christoph Thiede <christoph.thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de [mailto:christoph.thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de]> wrote:

Hi,

this commit has added a new reference from Morphic to Installer package, so the PackageDependencyTest complains. Shall I add the package to the expected dependencies in #testMorphic?

Yes, thanks.

• Chris

Nicolas has already fixed the test :-)

Christoph

________________________________ Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel Gesendet: Montag, 6. Januar 2020 16:33:31 An: JOHN SARKELA via Squeak-dev Cc: Chris Muller Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] The Trunk: Morphic-cmm.1484.mcz

What is the effort of moving it to TheWorldMainDockingBar to Tools-Menus in the next days?

Manageable. I think. :-) Being in feature freeze, we should rather update PackageDependencyTest.

Best, Marcel

Am 10.09.2019 08:04:19 schrieb H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel@gmail.com:

What is the effort of moving it to TheWorldMainDockingBar to Tools-Menus in the next days?

Best Hannes

On 9/10/19, Marcel Taeumel wrote:

In the long term, we should move TheWorldMainDockingBar to "Tools" or "MorphicExtras" or "System".

Best, Marcel Am 10.09.2019 05:24:19 schrieb Chris Muller : Hi,

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 1:06 PM Christoph Thiede

[mailto:christoph.thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de]> wrote:

Hi,

this commit has added a new reference from Morphic to Installer package, so the PackageDependencyTest complains. Shall I add the package to the expected dependencies in #testMorphic?

Yes, thanks.

• Chris