Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
Best, Marcel
+1
On 9/26/19, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
Best, Marcel
+1, provides a much better readability. Maybe we could switch to a PluggableMultiColumnListSpec here some day? :)
[cid:8dc32827-ccd6-406f-8ea5-38921c0eda57]
Best,
Christoph
________________________________ Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. September 2019 13:36:16 An: Alan Grimes via Squeak-dev Betreff: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
[cid:5641f6da-2292-4fac-80b8-b8b68f422d3b]
Best, Marcel
On 26.09.2019, at 14:11, Thiede, Christoph Christoph.Thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de wrote:
+1, provides a much better readability. Maybe we could switch to a PluggableMultiColumnListSpec here some day? :)
and make the left column flush-right
...
Best, Christoph Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. September 2019 13:36:16 An: Alan Grimes via Squeak-dev Betreff: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
Best, Marcel
... even with support for filtering, if Christian would provide his PluggableMultiColumnListMorphhttps://github.com/cmfcmf/SqueakUtils#toolbuilder-extensions implementation :)
[cid:0df46dcf-42c0-4722-a456-3820422053b0]
@Tobias: TextAlignments in MultiColumns are not yet supported, are they?
________________________________ Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. September 2019 14:14:51 An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
On 26.09.2019, at 14:11, Thiede, Christoph Christoph.Thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de wrote:
+1, provides a much better readability. Maybe we could switch to a PluggableMultiColumnListSpec here some day? :)
and make the left column flush-right
...
Best, Christoph Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. September 2019 13:36:16 An: Alan Grimes via Squeak-dev Betreff: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
Best, Marcel
Hmm... this does not work well for long class names :-)
Here is another version that looks more like our message sets:
Best, Marcel Am 26.09.2019 14:22:13 schrieb Thiede, Christoph christoph.thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de: ... even with support for filtering, if Christian would provide his PluggableMultiColumnListMorph [https://github.com/cmfcmf/SqueakUtils#toolbuilder-extensions%5D%C2%A0impleme... :)
@Tobias: TextAlignments in MultiColumns are not yet supported, are they? Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Tobias Pape Das.Linux@gmx.de Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. September 2019 14:14:51 An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
On 26.09.2019, at 14:11, Thiede, Christoph Christoph.Thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de wrote:
+1, provides a much better readability. Maybe we could switch to a PluggableMultiColumnListSpec here some day? :)
and make the left column flush-right
...
Best, Christoph Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel Gesendet: Donnerstag, 26. September 2019 13:36:16 An: Alan Grimes via Squeak-dev Betreff: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-) Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
Best, Marcel
On 2019-09-26, at 5:38 AM, Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hmm... this does not work well for long class names :-)
Could we do some reasonably intelligent wrapping? LongClassNameThatReallyOverloadsTheNotifierWidth > #sensibleMessageName It would mean making the list items able to be 'multi line' for display and click handling.
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- Not an idiot, but plays one in his life.
Could we do some reasonably intelligent wrapping?
I am afraid that we cannot.
Best, Marcel Am 26.09.2019 20:06:53 schrieb tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org:
On 2019-09-26, at 5:38 AM, Marcel Taeumel wrote:
Hmm... this does not work well for long class names :-)
Could we do some reasonably intelligent wrapping? LongClassNameThatReallyOverloadsTheNotifierWidth
#sensibleMessageName
It would mean making the list items able to be 'multi line' for display and click handling.
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- Not an idiot, but plays one in his life.
[_]— i want to make a multi Window Debugger which really reduces the need to mouse or click or fiddle diddle faddle stepping . Smalltalk stepping used to be my favorite hobby . <Alt>+<Tab> navigation or something keyboard only Vim where it remembers the clicks you clicked to Inspect a couple 3 things and plays them back apon any revisiting => reopening and puts the desired printOn:s into a popUp clustering which disappears or reappears apon leaving returning each click setup inspection selecting -> showing its printOn: just by keeping hitting the <Spacebar> . maybe the separate Windows take it in turns to coming forwards apon <Spacebar> . mostly you just keep hitting <Spacebar> or <F10> <F11> something . And the source code selection always always scrolls into dead center of the pain oh the pane centered top to bottom of the monitor screen without me fiddling with these tiny Steve Jobs scroll bars which never should have replaced the Adele et all ST-80 scroll flaps and that old GUI is coming back it’s just called WUP or WUPS or WPU or UPWoo or something which has hiding scroll bars byut they’re ((->tiny<-)) pfff so it takes some stressing to home in on the minute buggers . give me the old interface back again but with rich text . fancy fonts etc . oh yeah o y worse is better worse is better worse is definitely better and the GUI should look like things we are familiar with so our heads don’t explode speaking no ill of the dead but he couldn’t have been more wrong no like desk drawers and table tops and 3D rollodecks magic cap . but the 80 GUI never did any of that because why because why because it was 39 years before it’s time that’s why Adele whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hooooo
On Thu, Sep 26, 2019 at 20:17 Nicola nmingotti@gmail.com wrote:
+1
seems much more readable.
bye
nicola
On 9/26/19 4:36 AM, Marcel Taeumel wrote:
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
Best, Marcel
+1
On 26. Sep 2019, at 13:36, Marcel Taeumel Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
<image.png>
Best, Marcel
Best, Marcel Am 28.09.2019 13:12:55 schrieb Robert Hirschfeld robert.hirschfeld@gmx.net: +1
On 26. Sep 2019, at 13:36, Marcel Taeumel <Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.de [mailto:Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.de]> wrote:
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
<image.png>
Best, Marcel
Note that #spaceFillWeight would work, too:
Best, Marcel Am 16.10.2019 12:57:04 schrieb Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de:
Best, Marcel Am 28.09.2019 13:12:55 schrieb Robert Hirschfeld robert.hirschfeld@gmx.net: +1
On 26. Sep 2019, at 13:36, Marcel Taeumel <Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.de [mailto:Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.de]> wrote:
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
<image.png>
Best, Marcel
Hi Marcel, I do like the readability of this, but how is list filtering affected? I realized I almost always start my filter on the stack pane with ">" to filter on method names only (and not class names). It looks like that won't be possible anymore.
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:03 AM Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Note that #spaceFillWeight would work, too:
Best, Marcel
Am 16.10.2019 12:57:04 schrieb Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de:
Best, Marcel
Am 28.09.2019 13:12:55 schrieb Robert Hirschfeld < robert.hirschfeld@gmx.net>: +1
On 26. Sep 2019, at 13:36, Marcel Taeumel Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.de wrote:
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
<image.png>
Best, Marcel
It shouldn't be a big effort to introduce a middle column with constant ">>"s in each line, should it? :)
And then we could modify the filtering to match beyond adjacent columns.
________________________________ Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Oktober 2019 22:56:00 An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
Hi Marcel, I do like the readability of this, but how is list filtering affected? I realized I almost always start my filter on the stack pane with ">" to filter on method names only (and not class names). It looks like that won't be possible anymore.
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:03 AM Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.demailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de> wrote: Note that #spaceFillWeight would work, too:
[cid:16dd64f419ccb971f161]
Best, Marcel
Am 16.10.2019 12:57:04 schrieb Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.demailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de>:
[X]
Best, Marcel
Am 28.09.2019 13:12:55 schrieb Robert Hirschfeld <robert.hirschfeld@gmx.netmailto:robert.hirschfeld@gmx.net>:
+1
On 26. Sep 2019, at 13:36, Marcel Taeumel <Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.demailto:Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.de> wrote:
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
<image.png>
Best, Marcel
Hmm.. First, we would have to extend the respective ToolBuilderSpecs to let models configure such columns. #hAlignment, #columnSpecs, ...maybe similar to PluggableTreeSpecs... Data provision (col-first or row-first) then is quite simple.
Yes, one could add more columns with any characters. List filtering looks in all columns (OR combination). First column front match is a front match.
On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 10:14 AM +0200, "Thiede, Christoph" <Christoph.Thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.demailto:Christoph.Thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de> wrote:
It shouldn't be a big effort to introduce a middle column with constant ">>"s in each line, should it? :)
And then we could modify the filtering to match beyond adjacent columns.
________________________________ Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Oktober 2019 22:56:00 An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
Hi Marcel, I do like the readability of this, but how is list filtering affected? I realized I almost always start my filter on the stack pane with ">" to filter on method names only (and not class names). It looks like that won't be possible anymore.
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:03 AM Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.demailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de> wrote: Note that #spaceFillWeight would work, too:
[cid:16dd64f419ccb971f161]
Best, Marcel
Am 16.10.2019 12:57:04 schrieb Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.demailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de>:
[X]
Best, Marcel
Am 28.09.2019 13:12:55 schrieb Robert Hirschfeld <robert.hirschfeld@gmx.netmailto:robert.hirschfeld@gmx.net>:
+1
On 26. Sep 2019, at 13:36, Marcel Taeumel <Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.demailto:Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.de> wrote:
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
<image.png>
Best, Marcel
Hi, all.
Please find attached a change set to play around with this layout idea in the debugger. Needs current Trunk (#19138).
Best, Marcel Am 17.10.2019 19:34:18 schrieb Taeumel, Marcel marcel.taeumel@hpi.de: Hmm.. First, we would have to extend the respective ToolBuilderSpecs to let models configure such columns. #hAlignment, #columnSpecs, ...maybe similar to PluggableTreeSpecs... Data provision (col-first or row-first) then is quite simple.
Yes, one could add more columns with any characters. List filtering looks in all columns (OR combination). First column front match is a front match.
On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 10:14 AM +0200, "Thiede, Christoph" <Christoph.Thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de [mailto:Christoph.Thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de]> wrote:
It shouldn't be a big effort to introduce a middle column with constant ">>"s in each line, should it? :) And then we could modify the filtering to match beyond adjacent columns. Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Chris Muller asqueaker@gmail.com Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Oktober 2019 22:56:00 An: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-) Hi Marcel, I do like the readability of this, but how is list filtering affected? I realized I almost always start my filter on the stack pane with ">" to filter on method names only (and not class names). It looks like that won't be possible anymore.
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 6:03 AM Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.de [mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de]> wrote:
Note that #spaceFillWeight would work, too:
Best, Marcel Am 16.10.2019 12:57:04 schrieb Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.de [mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de]>:
Best, Marcel Am 28.09.2019 13:12:55 schrieb Robert Hirschfeld <robert.hirschfeld@gmx.net [mailto:robert.hirschfeld@gmx.net]>: +1
On 26. Sep 2019, at 13:36, Marcel Taeumel <Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.de [mailto:Marcel.Taeumel@hpi.de]> wrote:
Hi, all!
May I add more spaces to Context >> #printOn:? ... and a "#" in front of the selector ...
<image.png>
Best, Marcel
How will it look with long class names (or two of them)?
Okay-ish.... Not sure about that "[ ] in" ... it might deserve an extra column in the middle:
Best, Marcel Am 17.10.2019 20:24:02 schrieb Jakob Reschke forums.jakob@resfarm.de: How will it look with long class names (or two of them)?
Am Mi., 16. Okt. 2019 um 12:57 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.de [mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de]>:
Personally, I find the old version "[] in Class >> #selector" much better to read. And how would you handle nested, nested, nested blocks? ;-) In this case, I think a preference for "enable/disable modern debugger layout" would be useful.
However, the column alignment is a cool thing. Did you consider aligning the columns at the left and right border rather than centering them?
Best,
Christoph
________________________________ Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Oktober 2019 14:02:09 An: John Pfersich via Squeak-dev Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
How will it look with long class names (or two of them)?
[cid:986c0432-728d-4d86-a6e2-878d62dee9ea]
Okay-ish.... Not sure about that "[ ] in" ... it might deserve an extra column in the middle:
[cid:edbb72a6-7697-4320-b497-6f1cfb925b5f]
Best, Marcel
Am 17.10.2019 20:24:02 schrieb Jakob Reschke forums.jakob@resfarm.de:
How will it look with long class names (or two of them)?
Am Mi., 16. Okt. 2019 um 12:57 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.demailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de>: [cid:16ddaf55247cb971f161]
Maybe we could change the LazyListMorph implementation to allow crossing the columns correctly? This would us to take advantage of all available space.
[cid:02aae722-f396-459f-9959-51a88d0a2381]
________________________________ Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Thiede, Christoph Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Oktober 2019 14:39:30 An: John Pfersich via Squeak-dev Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
Personally, I find the old version "[] in Class >> #selector" much better to read. And how would you handle nested, nested, nested blocks? ;-) In this case, I think a preference for "enable/disable modern debugger layout" would be useful.
However, the column alignment is a cool thing. Did you consider aligning the columns at the left and right border rather than centering them?
Best,
Christoph
________________________________ Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Oktober 2019 14:02:09 An: John Pfersich via Squeak-dev Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
How will it look with long class names (or two of them)?
[cid:986c0432-728d-4d86-a6e2-878d62dee9ea]
Okay-ish.... Not sure about that "[ ] in" ... it might deserve an extra column in the middle:
[cid:edbb72a6-7697-4320-b497-6f1cfb925b5f]
Best, Marcel
Am 17.10.2019 20:24:02 schrieb Jakob Reschke forums.jakob@resfarm.de:
How will it look with long class names (or two of them)?
Am Mi., 16. Okt. 2019 um 12:57 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.demailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de>: [cid:16ddaf55247cb971f161]
Might be worth remembering that the listing in the notifier is just there to give a quick clue about the problem. Clear readability therein is necessarily the same the same thing as clear readability in the rather larger debugger context.
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim "Bother" said Pooh, as Eeyore shot him with a rocket-launcher.
Dammit!
On 2019-10-23, at 11:28 AM, tim Rowledge tim@rowledge.org wrote:
Might be worth remembering that the listing in the notifier is just there to give a quick clue about the problem. Clear readability therein is
NOT
necessarily the same the same thing as clear readability in the rather larger debugger context.
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim Useful random insult:- A mental midget with the IQ of a fencepost.
Personally, I find the old version "[] in Class >> #selector" much better to read.
Hmm, yes, but that prefix would be hidden for long class names and narrow windows.
And how would you handle nested, nested, nested blocks?
"[][][][][]..." ;-)
Best, Marcel Am 23.10.2019 14:39:41 schrieb Thiede, Christoph christoph.thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de: Personally, I find the old version "[] in Class >> #selector" much better to read. And how would you handle nested, nested, nested blocks? ;-) In this case, I think a preference for "enable/disable modern debugger layout" would be useful.
However, the column alignment is a cool thing. Did you consider aligning the columns at the left and right border rather than centering them?
Best, Christoph Von: Squeak-dev squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org im Auftrag von Taeumel, Marcel Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Oktober 2019 14:02:09 An: John Pfersich via Squeak-dev Betreff: Re: [squeak-dev] Give debuggers more space ... :-)
How will it look with long class names (or two of them)?
Okay-ish.... Not sure about that "[ ] in" ... it might deserve an extra column in the middle:
Best, Marcel Am 17.10.2019 20:24:02 schrieb Jakob Reschke forums.jakob@resfarm.de: How will it look with long class names (or two of them)?
Am Mi., 16. Okt. 2019 um 12:57 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel@hpi.de [mailto:marcel.taeumel@hpi.de]>:
Whatever we end up with, too many nested blocks should not create a lot of white space in the middle column.
Moreover, the square brackets should belong to the method selector, not to the class name(s), shouldn't they?
Am Mi., 23. Okt. 2019 um 14:47 Uhr schrieb Marcel Taeumel < marcel.taeumel@hpi.de>:
And how would you handle nested, nested, nested blocks?
"[][][][][]..." ;-)
Am 23.10.2019 14:39:41 schrieb Thiede, Christoph < christoph.thiede@student.hpi.uni-potsdam.de>:
Personally, I find the old version "[] in Class >> #selector" much better to read. And how would you handle nested, nested, nested blocks? ;-)
*Von:* Taeumel, Marcel *Gesendet:* Mittwoch, 23. Oktober 2019 14:02:09
Okay-ish.... Not sure about that "[ ] in" ... it might deserve an extra column in the middle:
Am 17.10.2019 20:24:02 schrieb Jakob Reschke forums.jakob@resfarm.de: How will it look with long class names (or two of them)?
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