I noticed that the Yahoo archive of the Squeak mailing list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/squeak/) has been trimmed so that everything before December 2001 seemingly is no longer accessible.
Does anyone know why this happened, and how we can get the history restored, and how we can avoid this happening again in the future?
Cheers,
-- Scott
On Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 10:22:15PM -0700, Scott Wallace wrote:
I noticed that the Yahoo archive of the Squeak mailing list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/squeak/) has been trimmed so that everything before December 2001 seemingly is no longer accessible.
Does anyone know why this happened, and how we can get the history restored, and how we can avoid this happening again in the future?
The best would be not to rely on yahoo for the archive. There is a nice archive at the squeakfoundation site: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/
This is even nicely searchable with google. (if you add "site:lists.squeakfoundation.org" the query gets restricted to the list-archives). Of course it takes some weeks for google to index the latest posts.
The problem is that the archive contains only posts starting from 6/2001.
We should really try to have a *complete* archive of the Squeak Mailinglist... did anyone save all messages? I have archived all incoming email starting from sometime in 1999, I could dig out all Squak-dev messages from that point on. But it would be interesting to have all the older posts, too.
Marcus
Marcus Denker wrote:
On Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 10:22:15PM -0700, Scott Wallace wrote:
I noticed that the Yahoo archive of the Squeak mailing list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/squeak/) has been trimmed so that everything before December 2001 seemingly is no longer accessible.
Does anyone know why this happened, and how we can get the history restored, and how we can avoid this happening again in the future?
The best would be not to rely on yahoo for the archive. There is a nice archive at the squeakfoundation site: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/
This is even nicely searchable with google. (if you add "site:lists.squeakfoundation.org" the query gets restricted to the list-archives). Of course it takes some weeks for google to index the latest posts.
The problem is that the archive contains only posts starting from 6/2001.
We should really try to have a *complete* archive of the Squeak Mailinglist... did anyone save all messages? I have archived all incoming email starting from sometime in 1999, I could dig out all Squak-dev messages from that point on. But it would be interesting to have all the older posts, too.
http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/mail/squeak.old/ http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/mail/squeak/ These archives are quite old. Maybe they can be retrofitted to the newer list archive at lists.squeakfoundation.org?
Karl
Karl Ramberg karl.ramberg@chello.se said:
http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/mail/squeak.old/ http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/mail/squeak/ These archives are quite old. Maybe they can be retrofitted to the newer list archive at lists.squeakfoundation.org?
I dunnow. Anyone with enough mailman/pipermail knowledge to tell me? I'm happy to give it a shot, I just don't have much time to do the research...
On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 08:08:49AM +0200, Karl Ramberg wrote:
http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/mail/squeak.old/ http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/mail/squeak/ These archives are quite old. Maybe they can be retrofitted to the newer list archive at lists.squeakfoundation.org?
Adding older mails to the squeakfoundation archive is very simple (Mailman stores a single unix-mbox file and it's possible to recreate the html with the "arch" tool)
But we need the old posts to be in unix-mbox files... the html from http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/mail/ ist pretty useless. And this archive only contains files back to summer 99....
I just checked my mailarchive: It seems to contain mails sent to me starting July 1998. But sorting 120MB bzip2 compressed mbox-mailboxes. I'd need to write some script that rips out the mails from the Squeaklist...
Marcus
Marcus Denker marcus@ira.uka.de said:
Adding older mails to the squeakfoundation archive is very simple (Mailman stores a single unix-mbox file and it's possible to recreate the html with the "arch" tool)
Cool. Issue #1 solved. Now, how to get the content...
But we need the old posts to be in unix-mbox files... the html from http://squeak.cs.uiuc.edu/mail/ ist pretty useless. And this archive only contains files back to summer 99....
I think I saw .tar.gz files somewhere... Yup - there's a 'squeak.tar.gz' and a 'squeak-old.tar.gz'. However, that
I just checked my mailarchive: It seems to contain mails sent to me starting July 1998. But sorting 120MB bzip2 compressed mbox-mailboxes. I'd need to write some script that rips out the mails from the Squeaklist...
Luckily enough, 120Mb is small these days (I remember one day earlier this year when I was doing some customer support, when I told the girl to open file XXX and check line 265,000 for the info see needed - some accounting system dump. To my utter astonishment, it appeared that in the 21st century, some comopany still distributes an OS with a default text editor that cannot handle 70Mb files so I had to mail her the info ;-)).
Just gimme everything you've got (upload it to incoming on ftp.theinternetone.net or ftp.squeakfoundation.org, that puts it on the correct server), I'll unique all the messages on message id and declare that the new archive.
On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 10:55:02PM +0200, Cees de Groot wrote:
Adding older mails to the squeakfoundation archive is very simple (Mailman stores a single unix-mbox file and it's possible to recreate the html with the "arch" tool)
Cool. Issue #1 solved. Now, how to get the content...
Some more details: You will have two directories,
mailman/archives/private/squeak-dev mailman/archives/private/squeak-dev.mbox
the directory squeak-dev.mbox contains a file squeak-dev.mbox, this is a normal mbox file. Add everything to this.
It should be sufficient to simply call "mailman/bin/arch squeak-dev" after that. But maybe you need to delete the html-redered files first, they are in the directory mailman/archives/private/squeak-dev
Luckily enough, 120Mb is small these days
The problem is not that it is big, but that it contains *all* incoming mail (squeak-dev, squeakland, privat, spam, cronreports). Yeah, very intelligent ;-) But Martin McClure's archive seems to be easier accessible and contains even older mails, so he saved me from sorting all that stuff... (Thanks!)
Marcus
The problem is not that it is big, but that it contains *all* incoming mail (squeak-dev, squeakland, privat, spam, cronreports). Yeah, very intelligent ;-) But Martin McClure's archive seems to be easier accessible and contains even older mails, so he saved me from sorting all that stuff... (Thanks!)
BTW, if there's some stuff missing I still have an archive that starts out with a message saying:
From Majordomo@create.ucsb.edu Thu Nov 28 01:06:02 1901 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 01:56:52 PST To: raab@isg_nw.cs.Uni-Magdeburg.DE Subject: Welcome to squeak
So we should be able to get a pretty complete archive if we wanted to ;-)
Cheers, - Andreas
Andreas Raab Andreas.Raab@gmx.de said:
From Majordomo@create.ucsb.edu Thu Nov 28 01:06:02 1901 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 01:56:52 PST To: raab@isg_nw.cs.Uni-Magdeburg.DE Subject: Welcome to squeak
Well, that seems to pin our starting point. Should be easy to complete it, if a determined Microsoft drone can find the first smiley on a dusty backup tape from the early '80's ;-)
Just upload your archives, folk. I rather sift once through a couple of gigs of duplicate mails once than that I have to discover we miss an important announcement from 1997 meaning I have to go back to the job...
At 10:21 AM +0200 9/26/02, Marcus Denker wrote:
The problem is that the archive contains only posts starting from 6/2001.
We should really try to have a *complete* archive of the Squeak Mailinglist... did anyone save all messages?
I've got the Squeak list archived since I subscribed after OOPSLA '97. Jan 1, 2000-now are on my IMAP server, which should be Unix mbox format. 1997-1999 are in Eudora mailboxes, which may be compatible. If not, I can just start Eudora to copying all those messages to my IMAP server, which should give us what we need.
If somebody wants to use my files for a searchable archive, let me know where you want me to put them.
-Martin
Martin McClure martin@hand2mouse.com said:
I've got the Squeak list archived since I subscribed after OOPSLA '97. Jan 1, 2000-now are on my IMAP server, which should be Unix mbox format. 1997-1999 are in Eudora mailboxes, which may be compatible. If not, I can just start Eudora to copying all those messages to my IMAP server, which should give us what we need.
Yup.
If somebody wants to use my files for a searchable archive, let me know where you want me to put them.
As I said elsewhere, ftp.squeakfoundation.org or ftp.theinternetone.net. Lessee how many email messages I can stash in a Set ;-)
At 10:56 PM +0200 9/27/02, Cees de Groot wrote:
Martin McClure martin@hand2mouse.com said:
I've got the Squeak list archived since I subscribed after OOPSLA '97. Jan 1, 2000-now are on my IMAP server, which should be Unix mbox format. 1997-1999 are in Eudora mailboxes, which may be compatible. If not, I can just start Eudora to copying all those messages to my IMAP server, which should give us what we need.
Yup.
If somebody wants to use my files for a searchable archive, let me know where you want me to put them.
As I said elsewhere, ftp.squeakfoundation.org or ftp.theinternetone.net. Lessee how many email messages I can stash in a Set ;-)
Okay, I'm currently letting Eudora upload 1998 to my IMAP server. I'll probably get the all of the files uploaded to you before Monday.
I don't have much of 1997. It turns out I subscribed on December 21, 1997, so I only have about 45 messages from that year.
-Martin
From: Marcus Denker [mailto:marcus@ira.uka.de] There is a nice archive at the squeakfoundation site: http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/
The problem is that the archive contains only posts starting from 6/2001.
Really ? I went to the above URL and see some messages from 1904 and 1970 :-). Has Squeak really been around that long ? :-).
There are also message from NEXT October & December :-).
(Of course, this might be a temporary rift in the time-space continuum...)
-Andy-
Andy Stoffel Andrew.Stoffel@jenzabar.net said:
Really ? I went to the above URL and see some messages from 1904 and 1970 :-). Has Squeak really been around that long ? :-).
There are also message from NEXT October & December :-).
(Of course, this might be a temporary rift in the time-space continuum...)
I did a bit of overclocking experimentation which involves running your CPU close to light speed - that really messes up your so-called 'real time clock' (the guy who invented that term never heard about relativity...).
1904 is strange - what OS is based on that (I know VMS had the epoch somewhere in the 18th century...)?
On Friday 27 September 2002 17:58, Cees de Groot wrote:
1904 is strange - what OS is based on that (I know VMS had the epoch somewhere in the 18th century...)?
That would be a Mac, I guess.
Back to the topic, from my old files I see that I got on the list on December 5, 1996. In my first message I mentioned that I was looking through the November archives so there were obviously older messages that I don't have. The address back then was "squeak@create.ucsb.edu", so perhaps someone at UCSB has something?
On December 11, 1997 the list moved to UIUC.
-- Jecel
Duane Maxwell dmaxwell@san.rr.com said:
1904 is strange - what OS is based on that (I know VMS had the epoch somewhere in the 18th century...)?
The MacOS epoch is Jan 1, 1904.
-- Duane
Which begs the question: why?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Cees de Groot" cg@cdegroot.com
The MacOS epoch is Jan 1, 1904.
-- Duane
Which begs the question: why?
See http://developer.apple.com/qa/ops/ops23.html for an authoritative guess. (-:
Gary
Andy Stoffel Andrew.Stoffel@jenzabar.net said:
Really ? I went to the above URL and see some messages from 1904 and 1970 :-). Has Squeak really been around that long ? :-).
1904 is strange - what OS is based on that
Someone already mentioned Mac OS....
(I know VMS had the epoch somewhere in the 18th century...
[Oohh... verging off-topic... until someone finishes a port of Squeak to OpenVMS anyway...]
November 17, 1858
The reason given:
"November 17, 1858 is the base of the Modified Julian Day system"
The curious can see the official reason here:
"Why Is Wednesday November 17, 1858 The Base System Time? " http://www.compaq.com/support/asktima/operating_systems/00911009-465D12E0-1C 01E7.html
More amusing is the related VMS system value: uFortnights
See:
http://www.compaq.com/support/asktima/operating_systems/00933F51-590A1400-1C 01E7.html
So much for that.... back to Squeak....
-Andy-
"Andy Stoffel" Andrew.Stoffel@jenzabar.net is claimed by the authorities to have written:
More amusing is the related VMS system value: uFortnights
I'm not sure how useful micro-fortnights are, but just for grins we (in this we refers to the group of people I was at Imperial COllege with) used to work in micro-furlongs and milli-fortnights. A micro-furlong is a quite useful unit, being about 1/5th of a millimeter or 1/125th of an inch and a milli-fortnight is a very reasonable 20 minutes. I'm delighted to see the use of a similar unit so well documented.
tim
Hi,
What about nanocenturies and attoparsec (or was it femto?)
Tim Rowledge wrote:
"Andy Stoffel" Andrew.Stoffel@jenzabar.net is claimed by the authorities to have written:
More amusing is the related VMS system value: uFortnights
I'm not sure how useful micro-fortnights are, but just for grins we (in this we refers to the group of people I was at Imperial COllege with) used to work in micro-furlongs and milli-fortnights. A micro-furlong is a quite useful unit, being about 1/5th of a millimeter or 1/125th of an inch and a milli-fortnight is a very reasonable 20 minutes. I'm delighted to see the use of a similar unit so well documented.
tim
-- Tim Rowledge, tim@sumeru.stanford.edu, http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim Strange OpCodes: CAO: Compare Apples to Oranges
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