quote: "While the laptop created by the One Laptop Per Child project has impressed many with its efficient design, it has provoked doubters who don't think it can really make a difference in the world. The project's founder and the MIT Media Laboratory's founding director, Nicholas Negroponte, thinks that too much attention is being given to the computer itself and not to the mission of global education he is trying to promote, but whether technology is more helpful than educational structure is being debated. "=====>" Intel and Microsoft stand as two of the biggest skeptics "<===="; Bill Gates questions whether the idea is "just taking what we do in the rich world," and making the assumption that it will be something good for the developing world as well. Seymour Papert, a computer scientist and educator who is an advisor in the project, claims that the machines will give the children new opportunities to explore, and "learn how to learn," which he feels is more important than traditional teaching techniques that simply focus on memorization. Stanford University education professor "=====>" Larry Cuban disagrees "<=====": "I think it's wonderful that the machines will be put in the hands of children and parents, and it will have an impact on their lives. However, if part of their rationale is that it will revolutionize education in various countries...I think they are being naive and innocent about the reality of formal schooling." Prototypes have been developed to prove the worth of the computers to government leaders in developing nations, and five countries--Argentina, Thailand, Nigeria, Libya, and Brazil--have already made tentative commitments to provide millions of the computers to students. The laptop is expected to go into production in Taiwan by mid 2007." unquote. New York Times (11/30/06) P. A1; Markoff, John - http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/30/technology/30laptop.html
To get a better view of history _and_ the future... replace the words "computer" & "laptop" with either of the words "book" or "codex" and see how history repeats itself.
Would you agree Alan Kay?
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:47:04 -0800, Darius Clarke socinian@gmail.com wrote:
To get a better view of history _and_ the future... replace the words "computer" & "laptop" with either of the words "book" or "codex" and see how history repeats itself.
Would you agree Alan Kay?
That was my exact thought.
I love reading the Slashdot crowd whenever--WHENEVER--the OLPC comes up.
Talk about not being able to see anything beyond one's preconceived notions.
The brickbats thrown by Intel and MS seem entirely based on them not being involved. Predictably childish.
From: Blake blake@kingdomrpg.com Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers listsqueak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:29:36 -0800
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:47:04 -0800, Darius Clarke socinian@gmail.com wrote:
To get a better view of history _and_ the future... replace the words "computer" & "laptop" with either of the words "book" or "codex" and see how history repeats itself.
Would you agree Alan Kay?
That was my exact thought.
I love reading the Slashdot crowd whenever--WHENEVER--the OLPC comes up.
Talk about not being able to see anything beyond one's preconceived notions.
The brickbats thrown by Intel and MS seem entirely based on them not being involved. Predictably childish.
And predictably stupid. As Bill Gates and Co. have no concerns in this world other then money, the best thing that could possibly happen for them is for more of the world to get educated and start producing wealth (which turns into money sooner or later, and windows/intel is largely the only real alternative for personal computing at the moment). But instead they focus on the fact that they don't get to tax *this* transaction.
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On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 14:11:56 -0800, J J azreal1977@hotmail.com wrote:
And predictably stupid. As Bill Gates and Co. have no concerns in this world other then money, the best thing that could possibly happen for them is for more of the world to get educated and start producing wealth (which turns into money sooner or later, and windows/intel is largely the only real alternative for personal computing at the moment). But instead they focus on the fact that they don't get to tax *this* transaction.
I don't style myself savvy enough to understand the difficulties the project will encounter once it finally gets on the ground, but to not root for it--to hope for its failure couched in terms of "realism" and pseudo-intellectualism, this strikes me as the worst sort of narcissism.
I don't think anyone can possibly know what this is going to do. But we can know what it *might* do. It might raise the level of education *drastically* in a lot of countries. For someone to piss and moan because they saw "millions of laptops" and don't get to tax it is just embarrassing.
From: Blake blake@kingdomrpg.com Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers listsqueak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 14:18:19 -0800
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 14:11:56 -0800, J J azreal1977@hotmail.com wrote:
And predictably stupid. As Bill Gates and Co. have no concerns in this world other then money, the best thing that could possibly happen for them is for more of the world to get educated and start producing wealth (which turns into money sooner or later, and windows/intel is largely the only real alternative for personal computing at the moment). But instead they focus on the fact that they don't get to tax *this* transaction.
I don't style myself savvy enough to understand the difficulties the project will encounter once it finally gets on the ground, but to not root for it--to hope for its failure couched in terms of "realism" and pseudo-intellectualism, this strikes me as the worst sort of narcissism.
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Dear JJ,
I see your point and agree about the positive inpact that OLPC may have in the creation of wealth.
But for supporting intelligent altruistic projects that are not hipocritical nor asistencialist ones, is common knowledge that one cannot count with the established interest (aka establishment).
Every thinking creature knows that they have an enormous responsibility on that. But that does not matters for the rest of us. You can spend your entire life waiting support like that from them. I may clarify here that I'm not completely convinced that they may be as smart as they think they are. But in practice their are more concern about the short term cashflow and status quo than the long term ones.
If you analize their position any altruistic moral interest they may have, that could lead them to any altruist, ponderated and intelligent, initiative, may just be entering in direct conflic with their financial or status quo interests.
Their environment will pass to see a motivated person too critic in a too *risky* way, and they will just do everything to persuade him to *be reasonable again*. Human history is full of this.
I think that only a deeply touched and strong ego in a position of power that can permanently make asistance (mainly throug reeducation and explanation) to it's environment can do that.
But right now wich interest do you think that will dominate the scene?
Anyway I'm optimistic. The OLPC will open a lot of oportunities to intelligent childs that has not abundant resources. This also means a lot of childs that has not a notebook and not a PS3 nor a Xbox nor a Nintendo, but that they could have a linux with a Squeak and other intellectual tools and time to use them. This dont let me doubts that in a short time this oportunities will overcome in number of *facts* (creation of wealth) the *opinions* of people that are too hurry to give their selfish-based, and in consequence, small opinions (concentration of wealth).
We just can wait. Just let it five years and see...
cheers,
Sebastian
-----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of J J Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:12 PM To: squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate
From: Blake blake@kingdomrpg.com Reply-To: The general-purpose Squeak developers listsqueak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2006 13:29:36 -0800
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 11:47:04 -0800, Darius Clarke
wrote:
To get a better view of history _and_ the future... replace
the words
"computer" & "laptop" with either of the words "book" or
"codex" and
see how history repeats itself.
Would you agree Alan Kay?
That was my exact thought.
I love reading the Slashdot crowd whenever--WHENEVER--the
OLPC comes up.
Talk about not being able to see anything beyond one's preconceived notions.
The brickbats thrown by Intel and MS seem entirely based on them not being involved. Predictably childish.
And predictably stupid. As Bill Gates and Co. have no concerns in this world other then money, the best thing that could possibly happen for them is for more of the world to get educated and start producing wealth (which turns into money sooner or later, and windows/intel is largely the only real alternative for personal computing at the moment). But instead they focus on the fact that they don't get to tax *this* transaction.
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?h
ref=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?%3E href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
On Fri, 2006-12-01 at 22:11 +0000, J J wrote:
And predictably stupid. As Bill Gates and Co. have no concerns in this world other then money, the best thing that could possibly happen for them is for more of the world to get educated and start producing wealth (which turns into money sooner or later, and windows/intel is largely the only real alternative for personal computing at the moment). But instead they focus on the fact that they don't get to tax *this* transaction.
Bill Gates has put enough money, and more importantly, time and energy into philanthropy in the developing world over the last number of years that I do not doubt the sincerity of his motives. Go take a quick look at the Gates Foundation web site.
Remember, it is a bitter pill for Bill Gates to swallow that his company's software is not the software we are concentrating on; if you were chairman and founder of Microsoft, you'd probably believe fervently in your product too. To he and his company's credit, they have been much better about OLPC than Intel has been. - Jim
From: Jim Gettys jg@laptop.org Reply-To: jg@laptop.org, The general-purpose Squeak developers listsqueak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org To: The general-purpose Squeak developers listsqueak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2007 13:51:00 -0500
Bill Gates has put enough money, and more importantly, time and energy into philanthropy in the developing world over the last number of years that I do not doubt the sincerity of his motives. Go take a quick look at the Gates Foundation web site.
Ok, my bad. I was in error when I said he cares only about money. He obviously cares about something else (depending on how pessimistic one is).
Remember, it is a bitter pill for Bill Gates to swallow that his company's software is not the software we are concentrating on; if you were chairman and founder of Microsoft, you'd probably believe fervently in your product too. To he and his company's credit, they have been much better about OLPC than Intel has been.
Has he offered his software for free for this project? Or for the same price of what ever OS you are using? If not then I can't see this of a case of someone being soar that they didn't get picked first for the baseball team.
I don't hate Bill Gates. He hasn't done anything that was more wrong then what others would have done if they had ended up in his position. But I am not as optimistic about the sincerity of his motives either.
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"Seymour Papert, a computer scientist and educator who is an advisor in
the project, claims that the machines will give the children new opportunities to explore, and "learn how to learn," which he feels is more important than traditional teaching techniques that simply focus on memorization."
Seymour Papert though Logos could enhance learning. Imagine that -- a toy that doesn't look like a weapon, a vehicle or a movie star; how successful could THAT be?
Microsoft's first impression of OLPC, if memory serves me, was that it was a fine concept but needed to run Windows. I wake up with nightmares of a WinCE machine running Bob, and millions of third-world kids learning to play Sol and use the three-finger salute.
<g>
Gary
----- Original Message ----- From: "Klaus D. Witzel" klaus.witzel@cobss.com To: squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate
quote: "While the laptop created by the One Laptop Per Child project has impressed many with its efficient design, it has provoked doubters who don't think . . .
--- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0652-6, 12/01/2006 Tested on: 12/1/06 11:12:04 PM avast! is copyright (c) 2000-2006 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com
How embarassing -- "though Logos" should have been "thought Legos."
I might have learned to spell and to type (and proofread?) properly had OLPC been around fifty years ago . . .
Gary
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Fisher" gafisher@sprynet.com To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:12 PM Subject: Re: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate
"Seymour Papert, a computer scientist and educator who is an advisor in
the project, claims that the machines will give the children new opportunities to explore, and "learn how to learn," which he feels is more important than traditional teaching techniques that simply focus on memorization."
Seymour Papert though Logos could enhance learning. Imagine that -- a toy that doesn't look like a weapon, a vehicle or a movie star; how successful could THAT be?
Microsoft's first impression of OLPC, if memory serves me, was that it was a fine concept but needed to run Windows. I wake up with nightmares of a WinCE machine running Bob, and millions of third-world kids learning to play Sol and use the three-finger salute.
<g>
Gary
----- Original Message ----- From: "Klaus D. Witzel" klaus.witzel@cobss.com To: squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate
quote: "While the laptop created by the One Laptop Per Child project has impressed many with its efficient design, it has provoked doubters who don't think . . .
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--- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0652-6, 12/01/2006 Tested on: 12/2/06 6:11:38 AM avast! is copyright (c) 2000-2006 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com
And here I thought you'd meant "thought Logo"!
frank
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Fisher" gafisher@sprynet.com To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 1:11 PM Subject: Re: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate
How embarassing -- "though Logos" should have been "thought Legos."
I might have learned to spell and to type (and proofread?) properly had
OLPC
been around fifty years ago . . .
Gary
----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Fisher" gafisher@sprynet.com To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 11:12 PM Subject: Re: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate
"Seymour Papert, a computer scientist and educator who is an advisor in
the project, claims that the machines will give the children new opportunities to explore, and "learn how to learn," which he feels is more important than traditional teaching techniques that simply focus on memorization."
Seymour Papert though Logos could enhance learning. Imagine that -- a toy that doesn't look like a weapon, a vehicle or a movie star; how successful could THAT be?
Microsoft's first impression of OLPC, if memory serves me, was that it was
a
fine concept but needed to run Windows. I wake up with nightmares of a WinCE machine running Bob, and millions of third-world kids learning to
play
Sol and use the three-finger salute.
<g>
Gary
----- Original Message ----- From: "Klaus D. Witzel" klaus.witzel@cobss.com To: squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: For $150, Third-World Laptop Stirs a Big Debate
quote: "While the laptop created by the One Laptop Per Child project has impressed many with its efficient design, it has provoked doubters who
don't
think . . .
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avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0652-6, 12/01/2006 Tested on: 12/2/06 6:11:38 AM avast! is copyright (c) 2000-2006 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Blake -
Darius Clarke -
Frank Shearar -
Gary Fisher -
J J -
Jim Gettys -
Klaus D. Witzel -
Sebastián Sastre