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Quick summary of a long email: I have a couple of months free, which I am thinking of spending writing or helping write some classes that let me treat Squeak as smart paper. To me, this seems related to BookMorph and its subclasses and rewrites, how Projects are treated, and how people give presentations using Squeak. Right now, I am looking for other people who care about this idea or have requirements that should affect the solution, related code that already exists, and collaborators. I don't have set requirements or design notes yet but will send them here for review when I (hopefully we by then) do.
Several things have been bouncing around in my head lately: - - I recently resumed work on an application with a tabbed interface which I wrote a couple of years ago. Back then, I rewrote a subset of BookMorph and TabbedPalette to support this since they weren't doing what I wanted and were too crufty for my refactoring skills at the time, but lately I've been thinking about Ned Konz' exhortation to extend others' existing packages vs. write new ones from scratch. - - Also a few years ago, I gave a presentation of an early version of this tool using a StackMorph. It was frustrating to set up despite the very useful tutorial, and very embarrassing when the floating controls disappeared on the second slide, so I couldn't advance to my demo. I see a couple of new options on SqueakMap (one of which is also a BookMorph rewrite) now. - - I've been using OneNote on my Tablet PC, which is a neat concept and is better than the other alternatives I've tried, but doesn't actually do everything I want (plus it's giving in to the Man). - - My computer is not yet as useful to me as a piece of paper, yet it could be so much more!
So, I took a deep look at BookMorph (and a shallow look at its rewrites, other presentation software, and the Projects stuff). It seems clunky in places, yes, but there are several really excellent concepts buried in there: - - A page/slide/project. That is, a laid out collection of morphs and behavior that you want to look at/experience together. - - Conscious navigation between pages, including transition effects and sounds. - - Different interfaces for this inter-page navigation: thumbnails, tabs, button controls. - - Navigation on a page: zoom, scroll. - - Templates for pages/slides. That is, a similar layout for several pages, with different data in each. - - Nested pages.
I'd like to see one, consistent underlying library that uses these concepts to support presentations, notebooks, tabbed interfaces, HyperCard-like stacks, and projects. I want to be able to easily create presentations and interfaces that work smoothly and that I really like, or at least that nobody has to gripe about.
Here's my plan: - - Identify related existing code. - - Identify potential users, opinionated folks :) & collaborators. - - Write up some requirements & design notes, and have whoever cares look them over. - - Refactor, implement or whatever based on the design notes.
Existing code I know of so far: - - BookMorph, its subclasses & friends - - SlideshowMorph on SqueakMap (with tests, w00t!) - - Slide Auditor on SqueakMap - - Spiral on SqueakMap - - InternalThreadNavigationMorph & other stuff in MorphicExtras-Navigation - - Projects & World-related stuff
If I missed your code, I'm sorry. Please let me know. If you haven't released it yet, I would be very grateful if you were willing to do so, or send me a copy of your working notes/current code/draft.
Potential users: - - Folks giving presentations. Based on searches of SqueakMap, conversations about presentation software on squeak-dev, code authors and general scuttlebutt, this includes Stephane Ducasse, Joshua Fein, Bob Arning, Ned Konz, Craig Latta, Lex Spoon, Andreas Raab, and Alan Kay. - - OneNote users. Dunno who this includes beyond me and Ron Teitelbaum but I'm sure there are more of us out there. - - Folks writing tabbed or other page-like interfaces. So far this includes at least me and Cees de Groot. - - Possibly, all Squeak users if the projects & world stuff is really part of this. Looking at the Project stuff might be a second step. What do you think? - - Did I miss anybody in the above categories? Sorry, and please let me know if so. - - Do any other uses leap to your mind?
I'll start on the requirements by listing what the existing code seems to be trying to accomplish. If you have requirements beyond this, especially if you are one of the people listed (or who I should have listed) above, please holler.
Thanks for listening, if you made it this far, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Brenda
Brenda a écrit :
Existing code I know of so far:
- BookMorph, its subclasses & friends
- SlideshowMorph on SqueakMap (with tests, w00t!)
- Slide Auditor on SqueakMap
- Spiral on SqueakMap
- InternalThreadNavigationMorph & other stuff in MorphicExtras-Navigation
- Projects & World-related stuff
If I missed your code, I'm sorry. Please let me know.
in muO there is MGraphBookMorph which has tabs and more generally is an attempt to improve BookMorph in some of the directions you described.
there is a screenshot here: http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/sqgeo.htm
I can send you a custom image with some examples if you want.
regards,
Stef
Sophie?
Really, really, look at the Sophie code. It does a lot of good stuff with text and images and annotating and notes and stuff. It's completely free (insofar as I understand that ) and the authors are available online.
tim -- tim Rowledge; tim@rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim "How many Kzin does it take to change a lightbulb?" "None. You can scream and leap in the dark."
Hello Brenda,
B> Quick summary of a long email: I have a couple of months free, which I B> am thinking of spending writing or helping write some classes that let B> me treat Squeak as smart paper. To me, this seems related to BookMorph B> and its subclasses and rewrites, how Projects are treated, and how B> people give presentations using Squeak.
I use a Squeak on an USB Stick for smart paper. Most people have a computer running, so why find a place for my laptop and wait till it starts. I use projects not BookMorphs.
Sometimes it's days when I don't program a single line and my visual memory helps me to start quickly if I'm coming back to a familiar place. So a development image also quickly collects lots of projects with visual sketches, documentation, textual sketches or arrangements of Browsers and other dev tools.
Whatever you decide to do please consider:
- a linear structure is not enough (maybe it is for presentations).
- it is helpful to quickly move or copy complex content between arbitrary pages or projects. BookMorph is better than projects in this regard. MindManager is very good at this (due to its fixed tree structure). Hey I should try the trashcan for this purpose.
- move content between images, at least of the same version.
- many ways to navigate the structure, a World full of projects is nice up to 20, less on smaller displays. Maybe BookMorphs sort pages but auto scaling and page expanding on mouse over could help.
- a quick (visual) navigation should be at hand anywhere, indented lists (like jump to project) are not agood solution. I think it should be full screen and maybe semi transparent.
- search capabilities, text, Objects of class X on which pages.
- type in the air like MathMorphs and then decide what it shall be.
- draw in the air to get lineMorphs
All imho. Gave me something to think about.
Cheers,
Herbert
On Wed, Jul 2, 2008 at 12:48 PM, Herbert König herbertkoenig@gmx.net wrote:
Hello Brenda,
B> Quick summary of a long email: I have a couple of months free, which I B> am thinking of spending writing or helping write some classes that let B> me treat Squeak as smart paper. To me, this seems related to BookMorph B> and its subclasses and rewrites, how Projects are treated, and how B> people give presentations using Squeak.
I use a Squeak on an USB Stick for smart paper. Most people have a computer running, so why find a place for my laptop and wait till it starts. I use projects not BookMorphs.
Sometimes it's days when I don't program a single line and my visual memory helps me to start quickly if I'm coming back to a familiar place. So a development image also quickly collects lots of projects with visual sketches, documentation, textual sketches or arrangements of Browsers and other dev tools.
Whatever you decide to do please consider:
a linear structure is not enough (maybe it is for presentations).
it is helpful to quickly move or copy complex content between
arbitrary pages or projects. BookMorph is better than projects in this regard. MindManager is very good at this (due to its fixed tree structure). Hey I should try the trashcan for this purpose.
move content between images, at least of the same version.
many ways to navigate the structure, a World full of projects is
nice up to 20, less on smaller displays. Maybe BookMorphs sort pages but auto scaling and page expanding on mouse over could help.
- a quick (visual) navigation should be at hand anywhere, indented
lists (like jump to project) are not agood solution. I think it should be full screen and maybe semi transparent.
search capabilities, text, Objects of class X on which pages.
type in the air like MathMorphs and then decide what it shall be.
draw in the air to get lineMorphs
All imho. Gave me something to think about.
Those are great ideas. I started on a similar idea. I wanted to create a portfolio of multimedia objects and started with the OneNote idea. I didn't like the way it was organized (I like something like www.thebrain.com), but I like it that you can easily cut and paste anything on a page (like from the web), put links anywhere to call a web browser or a link to a file. I especially lie that you can click the page and a text object would appear to edit as the default. I added a subclass of bookmorph and changed how it acted to be more like OneNote.
I also thought it'd be great to be able to share portfolios with other people via internet. Not necessarily send them, but to be able to go to a "Portfolio Browser" to search for other shared portfolios and include them in an appropriate portfolio of my own. The thought is to build up a knowledge base of a certain topic. You don't have everything, but it'd be nice to include clips from the web, links from the web, and other portfolio's to your own. .
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Y'all totally rule. I'll take a look at MGraphBookMorph, Sophie, MindManager, and TheBrain in addition to my other list, and fold in those requirements. :)
Brenda
Here're some interesting older Sophie demo videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag59IDi3dgQ http://www.geeksrus.com/movies/sophieonmacwindows.mov
And the tutorials page http://sophieproject.org/tutorials
Ken G. Brown
brenda-18 wrote:
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Y'all totally rule. I'll take a look at MGraphBookMorph, Sophie, MindManager, and TheBrain in addition to my other list, and fold in those requirements. :)
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El 7/2/08 4:48 PM, "Herbert König" herbertkoenig@gmx.net escribió:
- type in the air like MathMorphs and then decide what it shall be.
You know Milan Zimermann and me port the MorphicWrappers and MathMorphs to modern Squeak some time ago ? Here the info http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6050
Or if you brave enough could have all in SqueakLightII http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6056
In a Workspace,
| loader | loader _ CodeLoader new. loader baseURL: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/MathMorphsRevival/'. loader loadSourceFiles: #('MorphicWrappers-edc.3.mcz' 'Functions-mz.1.mcz');installSourceFiles. loader baseURL: 'http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/uploads/6050/'. loader loadSegments: #('LinearAlgebraI.morph' 'ModularIntegers.morph'). loader installSegments.
And in the Inpectors of the loaded morphs do self openInWorld.
All talks about objects , but delivers ascii files. I wish change this and put .morph, .pr ,.sqz and .obz objects in swiki and in ftp for image could load. And also coming from others Squeak, with some manual work.
Edgar
Hi Edgar,
EJDC> You know Milan Zimermann and me port the MorphicWrappers and MathMorphs to EJDC> modern Squeak some time ago ?
I know, thanks for the work, that's why I had it present enough to point to it.
The thought was that with pencil and paper you never have to call up a menu to put a text or a line on the paper :-))
So we can pilfer the mechanism and the idea from MathMorphs but for this we don't need MathMorphs. Actually MathMorphs is the better pencil and paper Brenda was talking about but only in a special context.
Maybe I'm wrong, and MathMorphs will also work for text. I already downloaded your SqueakLight2 and will give it a try.
Cheers,
Herbert
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
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Brad Fuller -
Brenda -
Edgar J. De Cleene -
Herbert König -
Ken G. Brown -
Sean McGrath -
Stéphane Rollandin -
tim Rowledge