I recall a discussion on the list a while ago about allowing Windows users to use control- rather than alt-. I don't recall whether there was any final resolution (i.e., code) posted. I looked in the Squeak Fixes archives, but didn't see it.
At the time, I thought I'd wait and hope it makes it into the official image, but as my Squeak usage approaches 50% of my time on the computer, I find my muscle memory is approaching a state of maximal confusion...
I'd be quite happy with something that swapped control- and alt-, or with something allowed the core commands (x, c, v, z, s, l) to be used with either control- or alt-.
To avoid unnecessary traffic on the list, perhaps it would be best to reply directly to me on this. I'll post a summary answer to the list.
Thanks.
Hi Harry
On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Harry Chesley wrote:
I recall a discussion on the list a while ago about allowing Windows users to use control- rather than alt-. I don't recall whether there was any final resolution (i.e., code) posted. I looked in the Squeak Fixes archives, but didn't see it.
I recall as well that somebody sent a change set to the list, but it is difficult to find even as I have all the mails on the harddisk. The problem of comming up with the correct search key ...
At the time, I thought I'd wait and hope it makes it into the official image, but as my Squeak usage approaches 50% of my time on the computer, I find my muscle memory is approaching a state of maximal confusion...
I'd be quite happy with something that swapped control- and alt-, or with something allowed the core commands (x, c, v, z, s, l) to be used with either control- or alt-.
To avoid unnecessary traffic on the list, perhaps it would be best to reply directly to me on this. I'll post a summary answer to the list.
The list isn't at all a good medium for documenting things. A better medium is the Swiki. You are probably aware of
FAQ: Keyboard shortcuts and bindings http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1844
and
FAQ: Modifier Keys http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/898
The first page tells you which method to change for doing your own keyboard mapping. Anyhow it does not give a link to a change set.
I suggest that we do a link from these two pages after the change set for the command keys has been refound or redone.
Having the right command key mappings is important not to put an obstacle for new Squeak users with a Windows PC. It can disappoint people considerably if they are not able to do basic things with ease (copy/paste) when using new software.
I think for Windows users ctrl-y,ctrl-x,ctrl-c and ctrl-v should work in the Windows specific way.
There could be more work on this. For example Aaron J. Reichow asks
I followed the discussion on command keys (for turning on the charRecog), and would like to add a global hotkey to close windows (like Cmd-W on Mac OS or Ctrl-F4/Alt-F4/Ctrl-W/Ctrl-X/Ctrl-E/probably more on Windows). I see that the command key stuff is attached to ParagraphEditor, which makes it very non-global.
How can I go about adding this? Is there any reason that it's not been done already?
The simple answer is probably: There hasn't been yet somebody feeling enough pain to take up responsibility for this and coming up with a solution (which could be just posting documentation on the swiki and some Smalltalk code which can be evaluated either by 'do it' or 'file-in'.
There could even be a kind of editor for keyboard mappings or at least a preferences panel for certain settings.
To sum up: Perhaps the person who did the change set for the Windows key mapping reads this mail and reposts the change set so that we can more properly document it (i.e. making it acessible).
Cheers Hannes Hirzel
P.S. BTW Just curious - you don't need to tell it - what are you using Squeak for 50% of your computer time?
Hannes Hirzel wrote:
Hi Harry
On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Harry Chesley wrote:
I recall a discussion on the list a while ago about allowing Windows users to use control- rather than alt-. I don't recall whether there was any final resolution (i.e., code) posted. I looked in the Squeak Fixes archives, but didn't see it.
I recall as well that somebody sent a change set to the list, but it is difficult to find even as I have all the mails on the harddisk. The problem of comming up with the correct search key ...
That was me... the changeset is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/squeak/message/36392
(A search for "windows ctrl" or "windows control" on the Yahoo site would have eventually found this, although you'd have to sift through a bunch of other matches too...)
I'd be quite happy with something that swapped control- and alt-, or with something allowed the core commands (x, c, v, z, s, l) to be used with either control- or alt-.
My changeset adds a preference which swaps the core commands between control and alt.
One question is: which ones are really the core commands? I chose -z, -x, -c, -v, -s, -f, -g and -a because they're common standards in text editors on both Windows and the Mac as well as in Squeak. (Alt-l only has meaning in Squeak, I think?)
Which reminds me, do Linux apps typically use ctrl-x/c/v etc. for cut/copy/paste etc.? I'm guessing not, I remember when I used SGI/Irix the apps (e.g. Netscape) tended to support emacs-like editing commands by default instead.
The list isn't at all a good medium for documenting things. A better medium is the Swiki. You are probably aware of
FAQ: Keyboard shortcuts and bindings http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1844
and
FAQ: Modifier Keys http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/898
Yes, I'm usually adding things to Swiki pages so I'm surprised that I forgot to do this. But on the other hand, I think this changeset (since it is a preference) should be added to the base image (in one form or another), so hopefully that will happen in the enhancements sweep for 3.3alpha which should start pretty soon.
There are other ways this kind of change could be done (such as a total ctrl-alt swap preference, or a VM change), but this seemed like the least intrusive way of handling it.
Having the right command key mappings is important not to put an obstacle for new Squeak users with a Windows PC. It can disappoint people considerably if they are not able to do basic things with ease (copy/paste) when using new software.
Absolutely. (Though they will have to set the preference. Having it be ctrl by default could cause various problems with documentation, etc.)
... There could even be a kind of editor for keyboard mappings or at least a preferences panel for certain settings.
This gives me an idea that it might be nice to have a button on the preferences panel (maybe in a new "keyboard" prefs group) called "Edit key mappings" or similar which brings up a browser on the #initializeCmdKeyShortcuts method, perhaps with an instructive comment.
To sum up: Perhaps the person who did the change set for the Windows key mapping reads this mail and reposts the change set so that we can more properly document it (i.e. making it acessible).
Okie doke. :-)
- Doug Way dway@riskmetrics.com
On Friday 01 February 2002 09:04 pm, Doug Way wrote:
Which reminds me, do Linux apps typically use ctrl-x/c/v etc. for cut/copy/paste etc.? I'm guessing not, I remember when I used SGI/Irix the apps (e.g. Netscape) tended to support emacs-like editing commands by default instead.
KDE does. They're "inspired" by Windoze...
Ned Konz wrote:
On Friday 01 February 2002 09:04 pm, Doug Way wrote:
Which reminds me, do Linux apps typically use ctrl-x/c/v etc. for cut/copy/paste etc.? I'm guessing not, I remember when I used SGI/Irix the apps (e.g. Netscape) tended to support emacs-like editing commands by default instead.
KDE does. They're "inspired" by Windoze...
Ah. That might indicate that we probably wouldn't want to put something like the ctrl-alt swap in the VM (for Windows), since some Linux folks might like the capability too.
(It's kind of similar to the 2-button vs. 3-button mouse mapping... we have a Windows VM preference for it, but then there are some Linux users who want to be able to switch, and thus we also have that button-swapping changeset for the image, too.)
- Doug Way dway@riskmetrics.com
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Doug Way -
Hannes Hirzel -
Harry Chesley -
Ned Konz