What is wrong on using some old as long works ?
There's nothing wrong with using something as long as it works if you want to use an old image. I don't want the core developers to be responsible for all things going forward.
Balloon3D could be loaded with hard work and maybe if we can have it could have a new user.
That's the issue in a nutshell: who will do the hard work? I'm worried about managing expectations put on core developers and the SOB.
In short time he realize all you said is true and follow your advice. But if we don¹t take users wishes, could loose he.
People don't leave the community because somebody disagrees with them. I think people leave the community because clear expectations and boundaries are not set. People leave because they smell apathy.
In the near future it will not be necessary to post to the message board to ask about this. There is a plan longstanding about creating a smaller image and then having tests, a contract between core developers and application developers about what can be expected to work in a trunk image. When that comes down (likely when Andreas comes back), then the issue will present itself clearly: the maintainer of Balloon3D is not keeping up with contract with the core developers.
Clear policies energize a community.
Chris
Problem with Balloon3D and some other obsolete packages is that compiler is not supporting things like # anymore. I guess that downloading VRML and editing #. to #'.' and then loading from local cache would "do the magic".
Other way is to getting a clean and old image (10996 used to work) and then load Balloon3D via Monticello browser prior to updating image.
Anyways, as many noted before, Balloon3D is not supported anymore. But there are similar problems while trying to load Tweak (compiler complaining about #. and other "forbidden symbols"). So, one thing that can be done is to load OpenCobalt "customise it" to your development needs. Problem is: everything works like PSP firmware: you update it with "non official" stuff (like update from trunk) and things start to fall apart.
I guess it's a problem of not having "core classes" that are orthogonal and not supposed to be directly changed (I just can't understand this flaw, since the right stuff would be having a set of core classes and when changes are needed just subclass and do what's needed in the subclasses).
Best regards,
CdAB Em 04-10-2011 11:18, Chris Cunnington escreveu:
What is wrong on using some old as long works ?
There's nothing wrong with using something as long as it works if you want to use an old image. I don't want the core developers to be responsible for all things going forward.
Balloon3D could be loaded with hard work and maybe if we can have it could have a new user.
That's the issue in a nutshell: who will do the hard work? I'm worried about managing expectations put on core developers and the SOB.
In short time he realize all you said is true and follow your advice. But if we don¹t take users wishes, could loose he.
People don't leave the community because somebody disagrees with them. I think people leave the community because clear expectations and boundaries are not set. People leave because they smell apathy.
In the near future it will not be necessary to post to the message board to ask about this. There is a plan longstanding about creating a smaller image and then having tests, a contract between core developers and application developers about what can be expected to work in a trunk image. When that comes down (likely when Andreas comes back), then the issue will present itself clearly: the maintainer of Balloon3D is not keeping up with contract with the core developers.
Clear policies energize a community.
Chris
Common guys, We are in Smalltalk! it's easier to write 5 lines of code than these lengthy mails ;)
Nicolas
2011/10/4 Casimiro de Almeida Barreto casimiro.barreto@gmail.com:
Problem with Balloon3D and some other obsolete packages is that compiler is not supporting things like # anymore. I guess that downloading VRML and editing #. to #'.' and then loading from local cache would "do the magic".
Other way is to getting a clean and old image (10996 used to work) and then load Balloon3D via Monticello browser prior to updating image.
Anyways, as many noted before, Balloon3D is not supported anymore. But there are similar problems while trying to load Tweak (compiler complaining about #. and other "forbidden symbols"). So, one thing that can be done is to load OpenCobalt "customise it" to your development needs. Problem is: everything works like PSP firmware: you update it with "non official" stuff (like update from trunk) and things start to fall apart.
I guess it's a problem of not having "core classes" that are orthogonal and not supposed to be directly changed (I just can't understand this flaw, since the right stuff would be having a set of core classes and when changes are needed just subclass and do what's needed in the subclasses).
Best regards,
CdAB Em 04-10-2011 11:18, Chris Cunnington escreveu:
What is wrong on using some old as long works ?
There's nothing wrong with using something as long as it works if you want to use an old image. I don't want the core developers to be responsible for all things going forward.
Balloon3D could be loaded with hard work and maybe if we can have it could have a new user.
That's the issue in a nutshell: who will do the hard work? I'm worried about managing expectations put on core developers and the SOB.
In short time he realize all you said is true and follow your advice. But if we don¹t take users wishes, could loose he.
People don't leave the community because somebody disagrees with them. I think people leave the community because clear expectations and boundaries are not set. People leave because they smell apathy.
In the near future it will not be necessary to post to the message board to ask about this. There is a plan longstanding about creating a smaller image and then having tests, a contract between core developers and application developers about what can be expected to work in a trunk image. When that comes down (likely when Andreas comes back), then the issue will present itself clearly: the maintainer of Balloon3D is not keeping up with contract with the core developers.
Clear policies energize a community.
Chris
squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org