Squeak-dev August 2008

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103 participants
139 discussions

Re: problem question answer cycle
by stephan＠stack.nl 05 Aug '08

05 Aug '08

John M McIntosh wrote: > Well people won't give you even an email address. This unfortunate > breaks part of the problem question answer cycle. Although we might > push all the stacks for all the processes and most of the data values, > that sometimes only shows: Gee how did they do that, but then you have > no way to ask what they were doing... Suggestions on how to entice > that information out of a user is welcome. You might have better luck putting the user in control of the communication cycle: "We've generated this random number for you, you might want to contact us to hear what we did about fixing your problem." Stephan Eggermont

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Re: Re: history of ideas: subclass responsibility
by Stefan Sobernig 05 Aug '08

05 Aug '08

Klaus, Thanks for the kind reply! > What I always liked are the paragraphs between "Inside every large program > there is a small program trying to get out. ?C.A.R. HOARE" and "In > class-based object-oriented systems, partial implementation is usually > supported in the form of abstract classes." in the paper linked below. > > What I mean is the emphasis on partial, incomplete implementation, made > possible by late binding, a valuable tool for incremental development and > maintenance. > >> > Is anybody aware of some nuggets out there? I would be grateful for >> > any hint + your thoughts when looking at your languages' history ... > > Perhaps there are some nuggets in the paper from which the above was cited, > > - http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=243439.243441 The paper is indeed an excellent reference, unfortunately it does not offer too much of Smalltalk-specific insights! Thanks again, //stefan

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Fwd: [SoC] Release of FreeCAD/Croquet ver 0.2
by Klaus D. Witzel 05 Aug '08

05 Aug '08

Please squeak-dev members test this application and send feedback. You can reach the student in the SoC list. Deadline is soon, don't hesitate. TIA. /Klaus On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 13:44:24 +0200, Phua Khai Fong wrote: > I have released freeCAD/Croquet 0.2 . > > All feedback will be appreciated. > > The instructions below will help you install and update freeCAD/Croquet. > > More detailed instructions are available on my site > http://www.oopgames.com/freecad/ > > Regards, > Fong > > From web browser, download Cobalt > http://croquet-src-01.oit.duke.edu/cobalt.html > Save in a folder e.g. > c:\cobalt > From Windows Explorer, unzip and open the containing folder e.g. > c:\cobalt\cobalt-base-current-build-20080703 > From web browser, download the monticello package > http://croquet-src-01.oit.duke.edu:8886/FreeCAD/FreeCAD-kayef.5.mcz > Save in the package-cache folder e.g. > c:\cobalt\cobalt-base-current-build-20080703\package-cache > > From Windows Explorer, double click on Croquet.bat > Inside Cobalt, click on black background to open World Menu. > Select 'Open' 'Monticello Browser' > In Monticello Browser, in right pane, click on the package-cache > directory e.g. > c:\cobalt\cobalt-base-current-build-20080703\package-cache > Click open > In the new window that opens, select > FreeCAD-kayef.5.mcz > Click load > Close the Monticello Browser > Inside Cobalt, click on black background to open World Menu. > Select 'objects' > Click 'Croquet' button > Click and drag KayefFreeCAD (Master) out onto black area > > Follow the tutorials on the link below > http://www.oopgames.com/freecad/?cat=10 > > Send instant messages to your online friends > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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HydraVM win32 update (was: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: new blog post plus closure bootstrap code)
by Igor Stasenko 04 Aug '08

04 Aug '08

2008/7/23 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com>: > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Igor Stasenko <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Good news Elliot! To what i see, changes you made are not too hard to >> merge with Hydra changes. :) > > Good. I would be very surprised if I did anything incompatible. I want to > change as little as possible only to enable closures and a context-to-stack > mapping VM. I would doubt that either my Stack VM or a JIT that derives > from it would have significant conflicts with Hydra and that these would be > resolvable quite easily. You are making VMs play together I'm merely > speeding up the execution core. > I done writing a small overview of code generator changes. You can find it there: http://squeakvm.org/~sig/hydravm/codegen.html >> Too bad, i had little time to work with Hydra for last two weeks. >> >> There are little news, except that Hydra able to run Qwaq Forums on >> win32, and it does it quite stable. > > Excellent. The StackVM is nearly able to run forums (it at least starts > up). I'm taking a couple of days away form it to finish some blog posts on > closures. > >> >> Yesterday i started writing a CodeGenerator changes overview, i think >> i'll finish it tomorrow. >> >> I'm also planned to release an update of Hydra sources and VMMaker >> package.. but i postponing release day by day.. because i'm little >> nervous, can't really tell the reason.. >> Maybe because, if these changes, after some evaluation show that VM is >> quite stable, this will mean declaring a Hydra VM entering a Beta >> stage (on win32 platform only for now). :) > > I think you should wait until after ESUG. We should meet at ESUG, show each > other our modifications and then publish a merge. What do you think? > Definitely, we should merge efforts :) Well, your changes is not backwards compatible with current squeak images, while Hydra can run them w/o problems. This is the reason, why i want to release them now - at least in binary form. So people may try run it and report problems found. So here is update. ---- VMMaker and HydraVM packages is now at squeaksource. MCHttpRepository location: 'http://www.squeaksource.com/HydraVM' user: '' password: '' The platform sources are located here: http://squeakvm.org/svn/squeak/branches/HydraVM I also wanted to put binaries to ftp.squeak.org/HydraVM, but forgot the password :) Ken, can you remind me please? Changes in last update: - fixed bug with queues - revised many plugins which can be now built with VM. It now builds with 100% plugins which coming by default with VMMaker package (if i didn't miss anything). -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Limbo, again!
by Jerome Peace 03 Aug '08

03 Aug '08

Limbo, again! 3.10.2 is released. 4.0 is on the horizon (and behind schedule). 3.11 or 3.10.3 is where? The reason I complain is that currently there are fixes available to vexing problems with 3.10.2 (fonts stabilitity, FFI installability). But no easy way for users to get the benifit of them. ( I consider loading the patches individually into the images not to be particularly easy). Mantis reports: http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=7140 0007140: Loading FFI renders sockets non-functional. http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6980 0006980: Loading FFI kernel makes NetNameResolver unresponsive The fact this now has a duplicate indicates how much the fix is needed. 0006577: In sq 7170 loaded projects get unexpected font changes http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6577 I've written a dozen emails about this. http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2008-June/129332.html [squeak-dev] 3.10.2-rc is missing TTCFont registry fixes M6577FontRegFix-wiz.2.cs I'd rather spend my time on newer bugs. So, Randal, if you and the rest of the board can solve the harvesting problem or even improve the current state of affairs. You would have my gratitude. My question for the board, (particularly in the person of Randal ) is how do we move forward NOW? Yours in service and curiosity, --Jerome Peace

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Re: Another FFI/Installer issue
by Torsten Bergmann 03 Aug '08

03 Aug '08

Hi, >Maybe is time to re-think about who should be in the Release Team ? No - if this problem continues to appear on the list we just need to fix the problem/images (not the release team itself) ;) >Maybe nobody cared to rebuild new images with the fix? >>Its not that "no body cared". Thats a little harsh... since ... My posting today was not intended to criticize Edgars work or the Release Team. Maybe the intention get's clearer with some background info: I tested 3.10 on a regular basis and I contacted Andreas in March after having the FFI problem and reported to the squeak-dev list [1] together with a mantis report [2]. After Andreas reported a fix [3] on the squeak list I also added his fix to Mantis. After a while I tried a newer image for 3.10 (Squeak3.10.1-7175-basic.zip) and since the problem was still there I now reported to the official V3dot10 list [4] in May - with the result that the fix is now at least in the preliminary 3.11 (posting from Keith [5]). AFAIK it's not fixed in the "Squeak3.10.2-7179-basic.zip" which is the latest downloadable 3.10 version and linked from the squeak.org webpage. I dont "care about" the reason and havent followed the issue since my own build scripts easily apply the fix. Maybe the fix in 6980 just slipped through, the fix is to unstable or maybe there is no general interest or to much work in rebuilding the 3.10 image for this particular issue or most people know how to apply fixes from Mantis, maybe people still use 3.9 - I dont really know , I can just guess. What I know is that I got no answer on the V3dot10 list regarding the issue to be fixed for the current 3.10 Squeak image. So my impression was and still is that nobody cared/or has an interest on having a newer 3.10 image built to solve this issue there. Maybe having it in a 3.11 script is good enough and a new 3.10 image is not necessary. But since I dont really know I've put a question mark on the statement! Nothing more said. >all "should" be well. Maybe, but that depends. I still think that it's hard for beginners starting with 3.10 (or Squeakers who do not regulary scan Mantis/dev list or know about Installer) to be faced with a problematic image after loading FFI... Bye Torsten [1] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2008-March/127207.ht… [2] http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6980 [3] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2008-March/127208.ht… [4] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/v3dot10/2008-May/001116.html [5] http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/v3dot10/2008-May/001112.html -- Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! Ideal für Modem und ISDN: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/smartsurfer

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Squeak and ODBC
by Benoit St-Jean 03 Aug '08

03 Aug '08

Is there anyone besides myself, Andreas Raab and Rob Rothwell who'd like to help on a new ODBC library for Squeak? The idea is still in it's infancy and maybe it's time to voice your opinion if you use ODBC with Squeak! Features missing? Wishes? Ideas? We should first establish a list of features and/or a roadmap as well as find an answer to the following questions : 1) which driver should this support ? (Microsoft ODBC, iODBC, UnixODBC, other?); 2) it should be built from which Squeak version (3.7, 3.8, 3.9, 3.10, other?); 3) it should work on which platform (do we include RiscOS, Mac, other?); 4) it should be tested against which database (DB/2, Oracle, SQL Server, MySQL, PostgreSQL, Informix, Sybase, Interbase, other?); 5) it should be available/compatible for other "Squeak variants" (Croquet and Pharo for instance?); 6) did I forget anything? The more people we have and the more different platforms, databases and "Squeak images/versions/variants" we have, the better this thing will be. So, once again, anyone interested in coding, testing, whatever-ing ? Speak out! ----------------- Benoit St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Blog: lamneth.wordpress.com A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. (Albert Einstein)

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Re: Limbo, again!
by Jerome Peace 03 Aug '08

03 Aug '08

[squeak-dev] Limbo, again! Hi Keith, *** >Keith Hodges keith_hodges at yahoo.co.uk >Sat Aug 2 23:20:21 UTC 2008 > > >I missed out the obvious link, namely the proposal that Matthew (who >deserves the credit) and I put to the board >http://installer.pbwiki.org/Squeak311Proposal > Cool. This is the info I was looking for. As soon as I can absorb all you wrote I'll try a more lengthy reply. You and Matt have always been most focused on the main path. Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace

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Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Squeak and MySQL?
by Benoit St-Jean 03 Aug '08

03 Aug '08

Good idea. I'd be willing to put some time and effort in such a project. I'm on Windows and can test for DB/2, Oracle, InterBase, MySQL and SQL Server if need be. It would be cool to have a complete coverage of the ODBC API and have a package that is "self-contained" (no dependency on a particular TimeStamp implementation defined elsewhere for instance). We should use/fix whatever is broken/missing in the "base" image. Is this the start of a new project? ;) ----------------- Benoit St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Blog: lamneth.wordpress.com A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero. (Albert Einstein) ----- Original Message ---- From: Germán Arduino <garduino(a)gmail.com> To: rjriv(a)sbcglobal.net; The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 6:42:37 PM Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Re: Squeak and MySQL? We should joint efforts to have an up-to-date and complete ODBC package. I can help with Monticello stuffs.... Let me know. Cheers. 2008/7/30 Rob Rothwell <r.j.rothwell(a)gmail.com>: > I would also recommend ODBCEnh, which lets you use DSN-less connections, and > implements doesNotUnderstand to look for common types of field names in the > collections it returns (so that ARecord firstName can find field names like > "firstName, or "FIRST_NAME," etc...). > The ODBC package is a change set, which, if I recall, loads some global > constants and things which made the TimeStamp class not work in Aida, I > think. Anyway, if you have problems, let me know; I have a version I > patched many months ago which seems to work...although I didn't know enough > at the time to turn it into a Monticello package and wrap ODBCEnh up with > it! > Take care, > Rob > > On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Andreas Raab <andreas.raab(a)gmx.de> wrote: >> >> Keith Hodges wrote: >>> >>> Latest avaiable is in http://www.squeaksource.com/MySQL >>> >>> I use it in combination with some classes in Magritte-RDB available from >>> mc.lukas-renggli.ch/magritteaddons >> >> Thanks for the pointers. Unfortunately, it appears from SqueakMap that the >> driver is GPLed and since we sell our enterprise server solution this is a >> no-go. I think I'll go with ODBC. >> >> Cheers, >> - Andreas >> > > > > >

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Re: Another FFI/Installer issue
by Torsten Bergmann 02 Aug '08

02 Aug '08

see http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6980 Maybe nobody cared to rebuild new images with the fix? Bye Torsten -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/wasistshortview.php?mc=sv_ext_mf@gmx

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