Squeak-dev March 2008

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

157 participants
229 discussions

Is it safe to count on traits in 3.10 and beyond?
by itsme213 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

There was a thread some time ago, but it veered off into other directions. How likely is it that - traits will be available in 3.10 and beyond? (either built into base, or easily-added-on) - traits will be actively developed / extended? Thanks! Sophie

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Re: [squeak-dev] License info in methods stamp
by giovanni 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

--- "Igor Stasenko" <siguctua(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 25/03/2008, Giovanni Corriga <giovanni(a)corriga.net> wrote: > > Matthew Fulmer ha scritto: > > > > > On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 06:40:48AM +0200, Igor Stasenko wrote: > > >> A small changeset which adds a license info for each method. > > >> http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6993 > > >> Works in same way as user initials. > > >> > > >> I think it can be useful for future relicensing efforts. > > >> With this simple patch, we will be able to easily find out, what > > >> methods need attention. > > >> > > >> We can put strict limitation, that in squeak release, from now on, > > >> only methods with stamp: > > >> <initials> <license> <date> <time> > > >> > > >> accepted. > > >> And only if <license> field is ==== 'MIT'. > > > > > > I think that's a great idea. I should bring this to the > > > attention of the board. Currently, the board has issued a > > > no-contributions-allowed policy until we can ensure that all > > > further contributions are clearly licensed, and stop muddying > > > the license issue even further. I think this is a perfect > > > answer. > > > > > > > > > Wouldn't it be better to place this information at the package level? > > > > This change is mainly concerning changesets , when people submitting > fixes/extensions of separate methods in different packages. > The it should be the changeset, shouldn't it? Giovanni

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License info in methods stamp
by Igor Stasenko 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

A small changeset which adds a license info for each method. http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6993 Works in same way as user initials. I think it can be useful for future relicensing efforts. With this simple patch, we will be able to easily find out, what methods need attention. We can put strict limitation, that in squeak release, from now on, only methods with stamp: <initials> <license> <date> <time> accepted. And only if <license> field is ==== 'MIT'. :) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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[squeak-dev] Squeak relisencing, Croquet consortium already did it...
by Hilaire Fernandes 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

From the Croquet welcome page we can read: http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/Main_Page "Croquet is a powerful new open source software development environment and software infrastructure for creating and deploying deeply collaborative multi-user online applications and metaverses on and across multiple operating systems and devices. Derived from Squeak, it features a peer-based network architecture that supports communication, collaboration, resource sharing, and synchronous computation between multiple users on multiple devices." Interesting part is: "Croquet is derived from Squeak" Then Croquet license is pretty clear http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/The_Croquet_License According to this information, Squeak has already been relicensed since 2002. Or is it a violation of the copyright laws? Anyway 6 years without a legal suit and even Intel, business angel investing money on this technology. Any though on that... Hilaire

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[BUG]UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand:
by agrimes＠speakeasy.net 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

here insert explanation of what you were doing, suspect changes you've made and so forth. I had opened a croqet window in a virgin image, wandered around a little bit, left the room, and got this error. I thought it had locked but it was merely being incredibly slow. =\ 24 March 2008 9:36:58 pm VM: unix - a SmalltalkImage Image: Croquet1.0beta [latest update: #2] SecurityManager state: Restricted: false FileAccess: true SocketAccess: true Working Dir /home/atg/updatedCroquetSDK-1.0.25 Trusted Dir /home/atg/updatedCroquetSDK-1.0.25/secure Untrusted Dir /home/atg/updatedCroquetSDK-1.0.25/My Squeak UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: Receiver: nil Arguments and temporary variables: aMessage: next: 16 into: OID:[00000000000000000000000000000000] startingAt: 1 Receiver's instance variables: nil TObjectID>>initialize Receiver: OID:[00000000000000000000000000000000] Arguments and temporary variables: Receiver's instance variables: OID:[00000000000000000000000000000000] TObjectID class(Behavior)>>new: Receiver: TObjectID Arguments and temporary variables: sizeRequested: 16 Receiver's instance variables: superclass: ByteArray methodDict: a MethodDictionary(#asByteArray->a CompiledMethod (3234) #asInteger...etc... format: 1026 instanceVariables: nil organization: ('converting' asByteArray asInteger asString asSymbol readFrom:) ...etc... subclasses: nil name: #TObjectID classPool: nil sharedPools: nil environment: a SystemDictionary(lots of globals) category: #'Croquet-Kernel-Objects' TObjectID class>>for: Receiver: TObjectID Arguments and temporary variables: anObject: a TAvatarReplica result: nil Receiver's instance variables: superclass: ByteArray methodDict: a MethodDictionary(#asByteArray->a CompiledMethod (3234) #asInteger...etc... format: 1026 instanceVariables: nil organization: ('converting' asByteArray asInteger asString asSymbol readFrom:) ...etc... subclasses: nil name: #TObjectID classPool: nil sharedPools: nil environment: a SystemDictionary(lots of globals) category: #'Croquet-Kernel-Objects' --- The full stack --- UndefinedObject(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: TObjectID>>initialize TObjectID class(Behavior)>>new: TObjectID class>>for: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TAvatarReplica(TFrame)>>initialize TAvatarReplica(TGroup)>>initialize TAvatarReplica>>initialize TAvatarReplica class(TFrame class)>>new TIsland(Island)>>new: TIsland>>execute: TIsland>>advanceTo: TIsland>>decodeScheduleAndExecute: [] in TFarRef>>syncSend:withArguments: {[result := myValue perform: selector withArguments: args]} BlockContext>>ensure: TFarRef>>syncSend:withArguments: TFarRef>>syncSend: TMessageMaker>>doesNotUnderstand: [] in TSimpleController(TIslandController)>>processMessages {[:obj | obj decodeScheduleAndExecute: nextMsg]} TFarRef>>send: [] in TSimpleController(TIslandController)>>processMessages {[[nextMsg := networkQueue nextOrNil. nextMsg == nil] whileFalse: [island ...]} BlockContext>>ensure: [] in TMutex>>critical: {[owner := activeProcess. aBlock ensure: [owner := nil]]} [] in Semaphore>>critical: {[blockValue := mutuallyExcludedBlock value]} BlockContext>>ensure: Semaphore>>critical: TMutex>>critical: TSimpleController(TIslandController)>>critical: TSimpleController(TIslandController)>>processMessages TSimpleController(TIslandController)>>advanceTo: TSimpleController(TIslandController)>>runEventLoop [] in TSimpleController(Object)>>fork:at: {[self perform: aSelector]} [] in BlockContext>>newProcess {[self value. Processor terminateActive]}

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Re: [ANN] New FunSqueak 6
by Klaus D. Witzel 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

Thank you Edgar :) Before I forget it, during your stint outside of hyperspace, the squeak-ev list (Squeak in Germania) asked about MathMorphs and the Squeakland .image; do you have any Squeakland+MathMorphs status information which I could forward to them? TIA. /Klaus On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:32:06 +0100, Edgar wrote: > I put a new FunSqueak3.10alpha.6.image. > > To list of previous packages, I add VMmaker and SystemTracer2. > For loading VMmaker , I first must load Speech-Klatt.st. > Was last versions for 3.8, so take easy until owners update his packages. > I remember FunSqueak 5 have > RoelTyper,eCompletion,Scheduler,Seaside,Pier,Magritte. > Server is running > > To web team , please update the info and links. > > http://ftp.squeak.org/various_images/FunSqueak/FunSqueak3.10alpha.6.zip > > Enjoy and send feedback > > Edgar > > > > > >

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Summer of Code - Students submissions now open
by Giovanni Corriga 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

Hi all, Student registration for the Google Summer of Code 2008 has just opened. All students interested in submitting an application should do so by going to http://code.google.com/soc/2008/student_step1.html and following the instructions in that page. The webform has two sections: - the first is an Abstract, that is a short description of the project that you'd like to submit. This will be used in Google's public GSoC website; if you need some examples, look at Squeak's project from last year: http://code.google.com/soc/2007/squeak/about.html . - the second version is a Detailed Description. In this section you should add a more extensive description of your project, with details on the problem that you'd like to solve, technical aspects, an approximate schedule/roadmap etc. You should also add a short description of yourself and of your Smalltalk skills. As happened last year, previous Smalltalk knowledge is not needed, provided you agree to learn the language and the environment before the beginning of the coding phase ;) Ciao, Giovanni

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Swazoo, history of mentioning of license
by Janko Mivšek 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

Dear all, Second Swazoo history post is about mentioning all posts where Swazoo license is mentioned. As I already said, I don't remember any discussion to define a license but it was set on SourceForge back in 2000 and that's a source of all license mess, IMHO. 1. apr00 by Joseph Bacanskas [1]: At CampSmalltalk, I participated in the start of a web application server project named Swazoo (Smalltalk Web Application Zoo). It is an ambitious project that has a great deal of very fine work contributed by Janko Misvek (Aida) and Ken Treis (an HTTP/1.1 server). Swazoo is an ongoing project being hosted on SourceForge. (http://sourceforge.net) search for Swazoo. You can get the current code from there. Further information about Swazoo is available at: http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/CampSmalltalk Swazoo is an open source project under the LGPL license... 2. nov02 by Steve Waring [2]: > is there some kind soul which could tell me if > Swazoo could be used in commercial app (and > distributed as part of it) ? The license is LGPL. My understanding of LGPL is that you can use and distributed Swazoo with a commercial app. That is only my understanding; I am not a lawyer, and I find the GNU licenses almost impossible to read.... 3. feb06 c.l.s thread "Long Lists n Client/Server aplication" [3] Bruce Badger: ... I guess Swazoo is a problem too, it being under the GPL and all. Perhaps this is part of the reason that Squeak is not in Debian yet? ... Janko Mivsek: Bruce, as far as I know there is no explicit license for Swazoo but it has the same as other Camp Smalltalk projects like SUnit. Therefore it is definitively not GPL. On the other side I don't know if we ever define a "Camp Smalltalk" license... Bruce Badger: Janko, that's not what it says here: http://sourceforge.net/projects/swazoo/ And it's under that license that I picked it up and started working with it. Bruce Badger: I dug around a little more, and the Internet Archive shows that Swazoo has been under an FSF license in SourceForge from the beginning: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://sourceforge.net/projects/swazoo/ Swazoo started out in SourceForge being explicitly licensed under the LGPL, but the latest version of the page shows that it is available as wither the GPL *or* the LGPL. We (OpenSkills) started working with Swazoo in the LGPL only era, and the LGPL license applies to all the work we have done on Swazoo since we picked it up. So, the latest version published by me in the Store repository is 100% under the LGPL. Janko Mivsek Hmm, I must admit that I see that license statement for a first time. It was probably set up in year 2000 just after first Camp Smalltalk when GPL was very "popular" and on the other side noone cared much about license anyway. Anyway, LGPL is fine for me but if someone propose better license for Smalltalk projects like Swazoo, it is my opinion that we should listen. Bruce Badger: So, back to Squeak and FSF licenses. if Squeak has a problem with FSF licenses, what impact does that have on Swazoo being used in Squeak? I'm not clear on what the problem with FSF licenses is from the Squeak POV, and I really would like to understand the situation. Bruce Badger ... As we now all agree that Swazoo is under the LGPL, what does this mean for Swazoo? Perhaps the Squeak community could raise this issue with the FSF as part of the on-going debate about GPL 3? Reinout Heeck > Anyway, LGPL is fine for me but if someone propose better license for > Smalltalk projects like Swazoo, it is my opinion that we should listen. Personally I prefer the MIT or modified BSD license. It doesn't stipulate that code modifications are given back to the community, making it easier on commercial reusers of the code. Rather the decision to share enhancements is driven by the cost of maintaining a private fork of a library, I think this is much more pragmatic than stipulating source availability like the (L)GPL does, thus giving more choice. I also very much like the fact that these licenses fit on half a page, I can actually understand them... Steven Kelly Good points: with (L)GPL, you basically have no security. It just doesn't matter what a sensible interpretation, or even your lawyer's interpretation, of the license might mean. If someone takes you to court, you're at the mercy of the opposing lawyer, judge and jury that day, and they're about as consistent and likely to make correct decisions as the patent office. Alan Knight > As we now all agree that Swazoo is under the LGPL, what does this mean > for Swazoo? > Perhaps the Squeak community could raise this issue with the FSF as > part of the on-going debate about GPL 3? The LGPL certainly doesn't address it directly, although depending what you think it means it might be possible that the LGPL usage was permitted. That's what we did with Glorp (on legal advice). We added some extra text with the code to explicitly state what the relevant interpretation of Smalltalk library usage meant. Legal advice also didn't think that the author of a license is allowed to redefine what constitutes a derivative work in law, making much of that text in the FSF licenses likely to be moot anyway. [1]http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.smalltalk/browse_thread/thread/a… [2]http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.smalltalk.dolphin/browse_thread/… [3]http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.smalltalk/browse_thread/thread/6… Best regards Janko -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

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Swazoo, a history of contributions
by Janko Mivšek 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

Dear all, Due to the all this long licensing saga I think you'll be interested on a brief history of Swazoo and contributions. This can put a bit more light on situation, IMO. 1. Swazoo was born on first Camp Smalltalk in 2000 in San Diego, see http://www.swazoo.org/history.html for a feeling of those events and what was our goal. See specially a "manifesto". There you'll also see names of original authors. 2. It was a merge of Ken Treis's Hydrogen web server and Aida/Web's web server, with additional Resource framework influenced a lot with ideas from Apache, and a support for virtual websites. That's actually what is Swazoo nowadays still. 3. 2000: First port to Dolphin was done by Steve Waring. 4. In April 2002 it was first published on Cincom Public Repository (Public Store), from when an exact history of contributions and contributors can be tracked. 5. Also an original Swazoo from Camp Smalltalk was published in Public Store (cs0.9, published 21.mar02) 6. mar02 SSL support for Swazoo released 7. sep03 Bruce Badger starts developing using Swazoo making his own fork for his OpenSkills project (0.9.76-bb01). 8. mar05 first code from Bruce in main branch: HTTPPostDataArray (0.9.96) 9. nov05 Swazoo 1.0 released 10. feb06 a dev branch opened to merge with Bruce branch and on top of Sport portability layer 11. may06 Bruce forked Swazoo into Hyper 12. aug07 Swazoo 2.0 released, with Bruce branch merged (before his Hyper fork), with a lot of other improvements, specialy speed, streaming etc. This one is also ported to Squeak. 13. feb08 Swazoo 2.1 released I hope this will shed the light to the developments of Swazoo and even that I probably missed some events, it can be a good start for anyone looking deeper on the current license issue. Best regards JAnko -- Janko Mivšek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

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Is Morphic 'frozen'?
by Igor Stasenko 25 Mar '08

25 Mar '08

Hello all, forgive me for my ignorance, i'm just want to know the current state of Morphic package and it's destiny. - is Morphic is 'frozen' by now? - is there are people who spending time improving/reviewing it? My concern is not about fixing bugs or supporting it in general but about moving forward. Lately, Gary Chambers added new feature to his UI Enhancements package to support a different kinds of fill styles (through subclassing a FillStyle). And after overlooking the changes/extensions it gives me a feeling that there is an big need in refactoring in Morphic to support this nice feature, instead of dealing with workarounds. Who in charge there? Who is deciding what is good and what is bad? And how such things (like better and more flexible FillStyles) or any other improvements can find a way to make them appear in Morphic? Being more than a year with squeak community i didn't saw any noticeable movement around improvement Morphic/UI except Gary's work. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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