Squeak-dev August 2003

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171 participants
757 discussions

Linux Croquet segfault with new gfx card
by Joshua 'Schwa' Gargus 02 Aug '03

02 Aug '03

Hi, I just treated myself to a Geforce FX 5600, and was dismayed to find that Croquet segfaults when trying to render t-meshes. The segfault doesn't happen immediately; many frames may be rendered successfully before it crashes. No Squeak3D.log is left behind after such a crash. I'm using NVIDIA's 4363 drivers (haven't updated to the newest ones yet; they stopped distributing in .tar.gz form) on a 2.5.75 kernel. The same driver worked fine with Croquet and my previous card, a Geforce 2 MX200. Squeak it the only app that I can find that exhibits a problem. I can run the OpenGL screensavers, all of the demo from NVIDIA's SDK, Tux Racer, and Quake2 just fine. The following is what is spit out on my command line. I'll try to look into it further, but thought I might save myself some time if any other Linux Croqueteers have encountered this. Thanks, Joshua Segmentation fault 1105393924 GLX>drawIndexed:faces:vertices:normals:colors:texCoords: 1105393832 GLX>drawIndexedTriangles:vertices:normals:colors:texCoords: 1105392508 TMesh>renderPrimitive:alpha: 1105391824 TMesh>renderPrimitive: 1105391732 TMesh>render: 1105391640 TFrame>renderFrame: 1105391036 [] in TFrame>renderFrame: 1105388572 OrderedCollection>do: 1105388436 TFrame>renderFrame: 1105387932 TSpace>renderSpace:depth: 1105381668 TSpace>renderSpace 1105381576 TeapotMorph>glRenderOn: 1105381484 TeapotMorph>renderOn: 1105381392 TeapotMorph>drawAcceleratedOn: 1105379644 TeapotMorph>drawOn: 1105379552 Canvas>draw: 1105379460 Canvas>drawMorph: 1105378724 [] in Morph>fullDrawOn:

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RE: Extending FileList with CrLf
by Daniel Vainsencher 02 Aug '03

02 Aug '03

Yup. Here is my proposal. 1. People want to see flexible line endings in the FileList. Make file list use CrLfFileStream explicitly, adding some appropriate protocol to FileDirectory (#smartFileNamed: or some such). Consider adding a bit of state to FileList so that files can be saved either with their original, remembered line convention, or the default line convention (see next point). Rename CrLfFileStream (since now all file streams can use any convention) to SmartFileStream, or some such. Remove the concreteStream indirection, so that the protocol used determines precisely what stream class is used. This makes it easy to give people examples that will magically work regardless of platform convention by using that interface. 2. Some people want their local OS to determine the default line end convention. Move the support for detecting and using the os line convention down into FileStream. Vote on whether it should use OS or Squeak convention by default. 3. We can either determine that .st,.cs files are defined to use crs to maintain backward compatibility and squeak-wide compatibility. I'm curious if any standard defines this about the format. Anyway, we decide this on a per format basis, and adapt the code to use the appropriate filestreams and modes. Benefits? 1. People get the behavior they want in various applications. 2. The abstractions of "line ending" and "le auto detection" become more separate, so that it is easier for programmer to actually get the behavior they want for their programs. 3. We have the option of getting the precise and common abstraction almost everybody else is using of OS specified, consistent line endings, which seems to cause minimal confusion. 4. The CrLfFileStream behavior becomes bound to a specific interface defined on FileDirectory, so that it is neither more nor less visible than StandardFileStream. Daniel Andreas Raab <andreas.raab(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > If I misunderstand this discussion and am talking at a tangent out of > > ignorance please forgive me. > > No, you are restating precisely the arguments that numerous people have made > by now. And Daniel is restating precisely the arguments he has made in this > thread all along. It's almost funny. > > Cheers, > - Andreas > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > > [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On > > Behalf Of Jimmie Houchin > > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 11:26 PM > > To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list > > Subject: Re: Extending FileList with CrLf > > > > > > Daniel Vainsencher wrote: > > > Jimmie Houchin <jhouchin(a)texoma.net> wrote: > > > > > >>Just for other outside information. Apparently the Python > > group has been > > >>struggling with this issue. I normally don't read about Python, but > > >>occasionally take a peek. :) > > >> > > >>This PEP has been implemented and is in the latest Python. > > >> > > >>http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/whatsnew/node7.html > > > > > > Note that they implemented the library so it requires an explicit > > > parameter for it to enter "universal" mode. That is exactly what I'm > > > proposing we do. This is not what CLFS does. > > > > That may be so. But were not Python. :) > > Python also has no environment per se. > > Python is a language. Squeak is more. > > > > >>Talks about the problem and how they decided to handle it > > for Python. > > >> > > >>Personally, I'm for handling it as elegantly and transparently as > > >>possible. I think that is what most people will expect. I > > understand > > >>Daniel's position. However, Squeak is a high-level environment. > > > > > > I don't know what a "high level environment" is. Squeak > > applications are > > > able to provide convinient application level abstractions > > because they > > > build on rich lower level abstractions in the class library. I am > > > stating that the two abstractions "line ending" and "auto > > detect line > > > ending" should remain separate, so that different > > applications can each > > > use what it requires. > > > > Now Daniel. > > Squeak is more than a language. > > Squeak is more than the sum of its libraries. > > > > Most of us here are consumers of some software written in Squeak. > > You can do many things in Squeak as a user without ever > > writing a single > > script or line of code. > > > > When I open the World menu and click on file or file list, I > > am a user > > of the environment or that specific application. When I view files on > > Linux it doesn't render line endings correctly. I can't speak > > about Windows. > > > > I imagine this goes back to the default behaviour of Squeak. > > This is a part of the user experience. It seems to me this is > > what most > > are wanting to be different. > > > > As a programmer, feel free to choose the behaviour you want. > > > > >>Low-level options are there, but I believe most people > > expect intuitive > > >>responses. I don't expect to open a text document written on the > > >>platform I'm using Squeak on and Squeak not handle it properly. > > > > > > We could change the default to be OS line endings - this is > > a reasonable > > > change. If you want your text editor to handle any strange > > line endings, > > > change your text editor to use an "autodetect line endings" > > mechanism. > > > > Why on earth would anybody not want their text editor to handle line > > endings correctly? If the text editor has the ability to > > understand what > > is meant, it should be the very reasonable responsibility of the text > > editor to do the right thing. Why would I want my text editor > > to create > > visual garbage merely to demonstrate that some of the line > > endings came > > from a different platform? So I could manually enter into the > > text and > > delete them and enter correct line endings. Yuck. > > > > > However, the default should remain a clean "line ending" > > abstraction, > > > without autodetection as it is in Python, C and probably most other > > > general purpose languages. > > > > But Daniel. We chose _not_ to use those other languages. Part > > of which > > is having better (possibly higher) abstractions. (even as default) > > > > You talk about libraries, applications and defaults. Its a > > bad default > > for libraries, but good as a default for applications. Squeak _is_ an > > application. Squeak _is_ an environment. Squeak _has_ a language. > > > > I think Squeak should improve on the status of programming. > > > > As long as we have to interface and communicate with the > > world outside > > Squeak, including text files, I think we should do it elegantly. > > > > Changing a default behaviour in Squeak doesn't remove your or > > anybody's > > ability to use the lower level library. Okay, we can say it merely > > changes were the pain is felt. Since the computing world is not > > consistent in many areas there is some pain. This is pain management. > > Maybe we (I) believe that this reduces the pain in the common usage. > > > > I have battled the default behaviour while parsing files. I > > expected one > > thing got another. In the end I chalked it up to my Squeak learning > > curve. But I feel I am not alone in my pain. > > > > If I misunderstand this discussion and am talking at a tangent out of > > ignorance please forgive me. > > > > Well anyway, I'm over my 2 cents. > > > > Jimmie Houchin > > > >

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[ENH] subtitles for the MPEGMoviePlayer
by Magistrello Alejandro (SFA) 02 Aug '03

02 Aug '03

this cs adds adds a Subtitles button to the MPEGMoviePlayer there is a jpeg in <http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/2590> by now this only works for files with .sub extension and a format like: {1043}{1082}La gente siempre me pregunta|si conozco a Tyler Durden. {1083}{1096}Tres minutos. {1097}{1133}El momento de la verdad.|Punto cero. {1134}{1162}¿Algunas palabras|para celebrar la ocasión? {1180}{1218}Con una pistola en la boca,|solo hablas con vocales. ... - made that if you open a moviePlayer from the ObjectsTool also has the Quit button like when you open one from a FileList, and the Quit button is now in the same row. - added 'moviePlayer closeFile' to MPEGMoviePlayerMorph.quit so the file is released regards Alejandro <<mpegVideoSubtitles-asm.1.cs.gz>>

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mini image for 3.6
by serge 02 Aug '03

02 Aug '03

I actually work on a robotic project and would loooove to use this so nice piece of software. I'm actually working with the mini image from 2.8 because in robotics, like with a PDA for example, you work with limited space in memory ( by the way, i do my tests on a casiopeia). So everything is great but i feel like it would be really better to work with a more modern image. Is someone know if someone (else) is working on ? I think i understood that all the project managment actually had this purpose : to start with a basic small image and plug-in all the projects as we need them, am i right ? and if so, maybe have you some date when it will be done ? thx in advance:) serge

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Re: [ENH] SUnit-expected-failures-jf
by Daniel Vainsencher 02 Aug '03

02 Aug '03

Ah. Then I guess Julian is right, and some new GUI would be needed. Could be nice to have one that shows a heirarchy with the TestSuites, and in each the tests it corresponds to. Daniel Colin Putney <cputney(a)wiresong.ca> wrote: > > On Friday, August 1, 2003, at 07:18 AM, Daniel Vainsencher wrote: > > > This would require a little supporting UI and process to use, but it > > doesn't seem to require a lot of work. I don't know but I've been told > > that TestBrowser allows one to partition the tests more logically. > > Maybe > > it supports TestSuites somehow. > > That might have been me, describing why I prefer TestBrowser to > BrowseUnit. As far as I know TestBrowser doesn't do any thing with > TestSuites. > > In case any one cares, here's what I was talking about: BrowseUnit > requires a 1:1 mapping between TestCases and the classes they test, and > uses a class naming convention to figure out the mapping. TestBrowser, > on the other hand, just filters out any classes that don't descend from > TestCase. > > I prefer to organize my test methods into TestCases according to the > set up they require rather than what they test. This works fine in > TestBrowser, but not in BrowseUnit. > > Colin

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problems with links on wiki
by Matej Kosik 02 Aug '03

02 Aug '03

I am just looking here: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/2141 There is a link to "Bob's SuperSwiki" where can be found some project related projects. MorphLayoutArticle.01{2,3,4,5,6,7,8}.pr I have tried the first and the last published version of that project. None of them worked in my current squeak. -- Matej Kosik <http://infobox.sk/kosik> ICQ: 300133844

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problems with links on wiki
by Matej Kosik 02 Aug '03

02 Aug '03

I have found the following page: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/716 useful. However at the bottom of it is broken link. Don't you know where it should point to? I was not able to find any Self site which would explain those messages in the original environment. -- Matej Kosik <http://infobox.sk/kosik> ICQ: 300133844

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Monticello remote repository
by Derek Brans 02 Aug '03

02 Aug '03

I'm floundering a bit in understanding Monticello. I want to have an "always online" server hosting a repository where my code can be found. I have the server, which has up until now hosted my CVS repository. How does one setup a Remote Monticello Repository? The discussion around MC seems to say that we are done with centralized repositories. What is meant by this? Isn't it handy to have one repository to manage code, so it doesn't start branching in 8 directions? Are we talking about a community of developers working and intermittingly merging)? How is that different than the cvs model? Thank you, Derek Derek Brans Nerd on a Wire Web design that's anything but square http://www.nerdonawire.com mailto: brans(a)nerdonawire.com phone: 604.874.6463 toll-free: 1-877-NERD-ON-A-WIRE

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csv file support?
by Jimmie Houchin 02 Aug '03

02 Aug '03

I was/am needing csv, comma seperated values, support. My need isn't as great as I thought it was going to be. I was going to harvest Stock data from Yahoo Finance in csv form. But they alter the data for their csv downloads. So I downloaded 10,000s of web pages (over 4gb) and parsed them instead. And I got a "data was slow" error on every single page. It never waited for the 5 seconds. I'm on a cable modem. Ugh. Would that issue come up in using Squeak as a server? However the Stock symbol list is still in csv and I would like to elegantly handle it. I ended up in Open Office changing the delimiter to tabs and then splitting the lines by tabs. Worked great, but introduces an extra step. Not anything I would want to publish. I looked for csv support in the image but did not find any. Is it in there? If not, I'll look at porting the freshly written Python csv module over to Squeak. Looks like they did some nice thinking. I am more than happy to let some smart people do the hard part. :) Any info greatly appreciated. Jimmie Houchin

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RE: [BUG][FIX] interrupt driven EventSensor ( could somebody provide detailed review, please? )
by Brent Vukmer 02 Aug '03

02 Aug '03

> Indeed. I'm hoping to foster discussion and suggestions for > cleaner code right now. > Hurray, Tim! (Or should I say "Huzzah" ?)

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