Squeak-dev April 2002

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195 participants
665 discussions

RE: [ENH] DateAndTime
by Norton, Chris 29 Apr '02

29 Apr '02

And don't forget the TimeStamp class I submitted as a GOODIE to the list... way back on 10/11/2000. I'm hoping that SqF will eventually roll some of these useful classes into the main distribution. Cheers, ---==> Chris

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Using Squeak as http client rather than http server
by Nevin Pratt 29 Apr '02

29 Apr '02

I hope somebody can give me some insight here... I've been looking at Comanche (and PWS). The basic job of these is to: (1) listen on a TCP/IP port for http requests, and then (2) respond to the request by answering back a stream of html text. This is, of course, the classic "http server" duty. However, I don't know how to do the opposite. That is, compose an http 'POST' request, and send it off to another server. In other words, I don't want to respond to an incoming request, but instead be the originator of a request to another system. Does anybody have any sample code for this? Thanks, Nevin

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RE: Problem with Socket under Linux...
by goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se 29 Apr '02

29 Apr '02

Ian Piumarta <ian.piumarta(a)inria.fr> wrote: > Goran, > > I ran your test program and saw precisely what you described. > > If you managed to build from source then could you apply the following > patch, recompile and try to reproduce your original problem with Comanche? I downloaded your latest source from your site (4478), applied the patch to that (instead of the SF sources which I used the last time) and first tried my simple test program I posted - which worked fine as you also write. Then I tried our app but that fails. The effect I am seeing is that the semaphores don't get signalled when there is data (it's the waitForDataUntil: that just sits there). Using the ProcessBrowser (I just love you Ned! :-) I can signal the semaphore "manually" and then my code reads the data (which sortof proves it was there) and everything works. (Note: I am running both server and the client in the same image but in different Processes) > (Running your test program with these changes, my VM sits at 0% CPU [plus > or minus a few percentage points when opening notifiers ;-] throughout. > I've run several other tests and the changes seem fine, but I've not run Hmmm. Perhaps I need to pack up another testsnippet that shows the current problem... regards, Göran

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How do you define "object-oriented"?
by Kevin Fisher 29 Apr '02

29 Apr '02

I have a bit of a question...I'm just sitting down to learn Python right now and I'm finding it a bit too C/C++ like for my liking. What strikes me about Python is it's claim of "object orientation"--and yet, it has atomic types like 'int' and 'char' that are not objects (shades of C++ and Java). I've read the quote on smalltalk.org from Alan that (roughly paraphrased) says "I invented the term object-oriented, and C++ was not what I had in mind." Is it safe to say that something like Python is not truly object-oriented? Or rather--if it's not objective right down to the smallest particle, can it be called object-oriented? I realize this could be a somewhat flameworthy question...but I don't mean it to incite flames. (and then there's the other question about why all new languages go out of their way to be so C-like...a personal beef of mine. :)

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Re: PLEASE use MIME Atttachments! (was: Re: [FIX] Comments for Set...)
by goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se 29 Apr '02

29 Apr '02

"Richard A. O'Keefe" <ok(a)cs.otago.ac.nz> wrote: > goran.hultgren(a)bluefish.se wrote: > And if you have made a contribution to Squeak, then you have Celeste > etc. And then you should be able to send a mail to the list using that. > > Yes, I tried that, and as I said, IT DIDN'T WORK. I know that - I did read your postings, I just tried to help you figure out why. :-) > Now I am reasonably used to > - Squeak not working (but it does tend to leave behind helpful logs) > - mail systems not working (but I invariably get *some* kind of response > from the mail daemon to tell me something went wrong). > "mail to list" failed to work and did not say why. Sounds bad indeed. But perhaps it succeeded? (as you yourself note below) > Looking at the code, I see that "mail to list" sends the message > to "squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu". I note that the originating address for Eh. Where did you look? I just looked in my 3.2g image and I ended up in: ChangeSet>>buildMessageForMailOutWithUser: ...and as far back as 9/27/2001 (#4385) it seems to be correct. Mind though I might be looking in the wrong place. The address is in my image: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org What update-level is your image? > messages in this list used to be > > squeak-request(a)cs.uiuc.edu > > and is now > > squeak-dev-admin(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Well, I thought it was "squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org". > Could it be that "squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu" is no longer a valid address? Sure could! In that case I guess that Squeak fired it away alright but you didn't get to see the bounce(?) > Sure, you have some problem apparently so that it doesn't work but the > only thing you really need (to be able to do that AFAICT) is an SMTP > server. And you have specified your SMTP server, right? (just checking) > > Ear sick horse. Mail sent from Netscape worked fine. What does "Ear sick horse" mean? I am not native english speaking so I didn't get that. > Let's kill this thread. I now have a copy of mpack and from today I shall > be using it to send my little contributions. Is it part of the > 'community standard' that the attachment must be gzipped? Well, I thought so. Read relevant pages at minnow for more "agreed stuff" in this area - there are actually quite a few things there that we have agreed on (like tags etc) - or so I thought anyway... ;-) > > Would it help if I provide a UUdecoder written in Squeak? > > > (But no, I don't suppose _that_ will be accepted unless it's sent as > > an attachment.) > > I guess that you implied a smiley there. ;-) > > Is there such a thing as a groanie? > > And in another posting you wrote: > > Fine. However, for distributing Squeak changesets we agreed on MIME > > attachments. It would be nice if you accepted this. > > > > Who's this "we"? _I_ never agreed to it. > > Well, we have been doing it this way for a long time, there is a > toolchain setup that depends on it, it is documented on the Swiki etc. > It is fair to say that the community has "agreed" to do it this way. But > of course - we didn't specifically ask you about it... :-o > > I deny that it is fair to say that the community has agreed at all. > Unless 'the community' means just the individuals who _were_ consulted, I would guess that the issue was debated on the list - as everything else. And if you weren't on the list at the time, then you are correct - you were not in "the community" then. I don't know this for sure though, I don't remember and don't have time to dig it up. > in which case Squeak user and Squeak promoter though I may be, I am not > part of the Squeak community. > > Had I had any part in the decision, I would have argued as strongly as > I could against attachments, on the grounds that > - they are not necessary, > - they are not supported by all mail user agents, > - they are notorious for insecurity. Just curious, how is uuencoding better than attachments then? It's not supported in all email clients AFAIK. So you want us to change this? Honestly, and with all due respect etc. etc and I don't want to sound rude and so on, BUT... this thread feels so unnecessary. AFAIK nobody else have argued against the current scheme in all this time - you are the first. And there are lots of people submitting stuff to the list. > But then, I'm the kind of troglodyte for prefers plain text messages > to Microsoft Word attachments... Well, I am too. > I am of course perfectly willing to use whatever method *works*. Well, you could have fooled me. regards, Göran

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Comanche ChieftainModule default
by Nevin Pratt 29 Apr '02

29 Apr '02

The new 'ChieftainModule' class in the newer Comanche is interesting. Congratulations and thanks to whoever did this. One comment though. At the end of the #process: method, where the comment reads "otherwise, the default response", it just returns nil. In other words, "do nothing" is the default. I suggest we allow a default that is a bit more meaningful than this. I suggest we be able to install any Comanche module and use it as the default, and only return nil as the default when there hasn't been a specific Comanche module installed as the default handler. So, we add a 'default' instance variable, give it a setter method, and send the request to the default (if it exists) instead of answering nil. But otherwise, I think the ChieftainModule is nice, clean, straight-forward, and (of course) simple. Nevin

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Re: [ENH] DateAndTime
by goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se 29 Apr '02

29 Apr '02

"Lex Spoon" <lex(a)cc.gatech.edu> wrote: > Are you aware of the existing implementation of ANSI classes and methods > by Richard Harmon? > > http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/2384 > > > ANSI Squeak is here. Nobody seems to know about it. I agree. Is ther ANY reasons for us not lifting Richard Harmons work into the image? I saw somewhere that it's mostly added classes and not many changes. regards, Göran

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Re: Vote now! (was Re: straw-man 3.2 default preferences)
by goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se 29 Apr '02

29 Apr '02

Doug Way <dway(a)riskmetrics.com> wrote: [SNIP] > A minor gripe about this poll... at first I assumed the poll was a vote > on whether one prefers multiple colored windows in general (including > borders and titlebars), versus windows all of one color. I think this > was the context of the discussion above. But it appears from the > further description on the poll that it's about whether or not to have > white backgrounds, assuming multi-colored windows. (People might vote > differently on these two questions, at least I would.) Yes, when I wrote the poll I had a hard time getting it short and still "correct". Sorry. :-) > It's a cool idea to have polls on these sorts of topics, though... it's > good to get a rough sample of opinions. > > This particular poll as it stands seems to be "neck and neck" right now > (a horse-racing term meaning very close, for the non-native English > speakers out there :) ). Unfortunately this is because of cheating! :-0 When I reported it said 17-8 (or something like that) then someone surfed over there and clicked a few times making it 25-25. It was an anonymous poll and then you can cheat... Perhaps I should add a check on ip-number (or cookie! cough) or something. Anyway - you can have nonanonymous polls too (only for registered accounts) and then you can only vote once, but you will need to login first. SqueakDot has been dormant a while - soon I will pick it up again. regards, Göran

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Re: Website look
by goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se 29 Apr '02

29 Apr '02

"Lex Spoon" <lex(a)cc.gatech.edu> wrote: > cg(a)cdegroot.com (Cees de Groot) wrote: > > >From the two examples above, it is clear that the Squeak License doesn't > > pass the Open Source Institute's Open Source Definition, not the Free > > Software Foundation's definition of Free Software, so it seems to be > > inappropriate at the moment to label Squeak as open source. > > Why do these guys get to define "open source"? In the common parlance, > you don't need as many restrictions as they require. If you can distribute > the program widely, if you have all the source code, and if you can modify the source > code and redistribute it, then the program is open source. It's not > necessarily OSI-approved or FSF-approved, but this says more about those > institutions than about Squeak. To some extent I agree. But have you read all Cees and my posts on this? There are several issues here. One is that the "bigger" community of open/free software really would like to keep the two existing "definitions" (OSIs "OpenSource" and FSFs "free software") unmuddled. It is in our own best interest to keep these two definitions distinct and clear, IMHO. So if we write "Squeak is open source.", then even if we technically are not "lying" (because we didn't use capital letters) some people will think that we mean the OSI OpenSource variant. And I repeat once more - the SqueakL license has been presented on license-discuss (OSIs mailinglist) and there where 3-4 knowledgeable people responding that it is CLEARLY not "OSI OpenSource". I think Andrew Greenberg has also written that somewhere/time. Since we can write it differently thus avoiding any misconceptions (I have offered one simple variant, but there are surely tons more) I can't really see why we shouldn't. What are the reasons to NOT change the current wording? Being as correct as possible is the best in my book. > -Lex regards, Göran

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[FIX] zipRewindFix-nk
by Ned Konz 29 Apr '02

29 Apr '02

from preamble: "Change Set: zipRewindFix-nk Date: 28 April 2002 Author: Ned Konz This fixes a bug in the Zip support and the Archive Viewer where it would extract short files from a compressed archive."!

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