Squeak-dev November 2001

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

174 participants
374 discussions

[BUG][FIX] window resize
by Jim Benson 03 Nov '01

03 Nov '01

>From the preamble: "When the user goes to resize a system window, if she clicks on the border of an AlignmentMorph adjacent to the edge of the window frame, she picks up the entire window in the hand. The proper behaviour is to do nothing" When reframing a window using the bottom right corner, I was able to pick up the entire window instead of the resize frame. This happens when the cursor is on the border of the AlignmentMorph that is adjacent to the SystemWindow surround. This fix is a rather ugly hack, but it appears to work with the limited testing that I have done. Jim

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[FIX] selectionRects-ls
by Lex Spoon 03 Nov '01

03 Nov '01

This "mail to list" Thing is kind cool! -Lex from preamble: "Change Set: selectionRects-ls Date: 3 November 2001 Author: Lex Spoon Undo an optimization that doesn't work when TextIndent's are being used: the left margin can change from line to line within a paragraph. For example, open Scamper and go to a page with lists on it, and then try to select over the list -- it will act funny"!

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I have a dream
by Jimmie Houchin 03 Nov '01

03 Nov '01

I have a dream. In my mind I would like to see many of the productivity type apps with a high quality Squeak implementation. Email, web-browser, word-processors, spreadsheets, PIM, etc. At work I am on a WinME machine, at home LinuxBox, wife and children on Macs. Squeak supercedes the OS. Squeak can provide for reasonably seemless transition from one OS to another. As anyone who has used computers for any length of time can attest, OSes come OSes go. However Squeak can remain because it can ride on the wave. It would be nice if most of the truly important or critical apps were Squeak based. Anyone else share this dream. :) Jimmie Houchin

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[ENH] a DoitButtonMorph
by David N. Smith (IBM) 03 Nov '01

03 Nov '01

Hi: Recently I needed a button that would simply do a doit on some code; I hacked up a subclass of RectangleMorph and used that in a demo. It seemed useful enough that I more properly implemented one as a subclass of SimpleButtonMorph. A file-in is attached. It was developed on 3.2 but should ... blah ... . >From the class documentation: ---------- I am a button, like SimpleButtonMorph, except that I evaluate a string when pressed. I can be used to add buttons on the screen wherever you want, and which do most anything a DoIt will do. The Halo menu lets the label and doit string be changed when you wish. DoitButtonMorph new openInWorld Useful variations are: DoitButtonMorph new label: 'Open Selector Browser'; doitString: 'SelectorBrowser new open'; openInWorld and, to exit a project: DoitButtonMorph new label: ' ^ '; doitString: 'Project returnToPreviousProject'; openInWorld ----------- I'm open for suggestions, criticisms, or whatever. There may even be such a button somewhere (Transforming3DPressThingMorph or something) but I couldn't find one. Dave

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[ENH] Faster StarSqueak patch variables
by Helge Horch 03 Nov '01

03 Nov '01

Folks, a very small but effective enhancement for StarSqueak worlds. To quote from the preamble: Allow custom StarSqueak worlds to go faster by varying the kind of Dictionary that the patch variables are kept in. The default is still Dictionary, subclasses may substitute IdentityDictionary, and then have to use e.g. Symbols as patch variable names. This does not automatically affect the supplied StarSqueak worlds, but it does help the upcoming StarSqueakLife, as profiling has shown. Cheers, Helge

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[FIX] Assorted StarSqueak fixes
by Helge Horch 03 Nov '01

03 Nov '01

Folks, herewith a couple of fixes to the StarSqueak subsystem: * Fixes a couple of StarSqueakPatch neighbor methods to cascade #x: and #y: setters instead of sending the (unimplemented) #x:y: * Fix missing return in StarSqueakTurtle>>patchBrightness * Fix turtle cache addressing scheme in #firstTurtleAtX:y: Cheers, Helge

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Re: What's "Linking" under the GPL?
by goran.hultgren＠bluefish.se 02 Nov '01

02 Nov '01

Howdy all! "Andrew C. Greenberg" <werdna(a)mucow.com> wrote: > > On Thursday, November 1, 2001, at 10:07 AM, goran.hultgren(a)bluefish.se > wrote: > > > It all comes down to how you define "free" and I also like the BSD/MIT > > variant mostly in favour of GPL. > > But I can still understand the mechanics behind GPL and the reasoning > > behind it. > > I usually rely upon the dictionary definitions. Last time I looked, > none of the definitions of free suggested or implied the notion of > "constrained" or "limited." The meaning of the word "free" (as being used opposed to what the dictionary says) in all these areas is not clear, I agree. English is not native to me so my view of the word might be clouded indeed. Bijan wrote about this in another reply and I agree with what he said. Hmm, ok, one silly little take on this - perhaps the notion of the word reflects a fundamental difference between our different societies where we live. I for example do not consider words like "freedom" and "free" to automatically mean "no restrictions" or "no constraints". A silly example I know, but nevertheless you have all heard these words: "Your freedom ends where the other person's freedom begins. Your rights end where the other guy's nose begins." (I searched on google for "your freedom ends" because I didn't remember where I had heard it) So in short, if we had no restrictions in society a person could take away "freedom" from another person. Or something like that. Anyway, efter using webster a bit to look these words up you could very well argue that "freedom" is someting completely different than "free" or actually the other way too. :-) For example about freedom we find both: "the quality or state of being free" (which would more or less "equalize" meaning between the words) and then "FREEDOM has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated " (which implies to me that it is a range more or less constrained) Since the word "free" says: "having the legal and political rights of a citizen" (obviously constrained by law) and then also "stresses the complete absence of external rule and the full right to make all of one's own decisions" (ok, he, no constraints at all imlied here...) So using Webster I personally came up sortof empty here but one thing I can say - it sure doesn't *without a doubt* equalize "free" or "freedom" with "total absence of constraints". Anyway this is beside my original point so I will let others debate it. > > I would say that GPL is more like "free, and it bloody well should stay > > free"-license than > > the MIT/BSD - "free, and you can do what you want with it including > > making it nonfree"-license. > > Indeed, Goran, who accused others of engaging in propagandizing, proves BTW - I have actually just apologized for coming on too hard in my first post. :-) > too much. Clearly the use of the term "free" for GPL is itself a form > of propaganda. As I noted, there is not a single dictionary definition > of free consistent with GPL's viral nature. Regarding my findings above I don't think it is that clear cut. > > To then liken FSF/GPL (etc) with the Soviet when FSF in fact are trying > > hard to keep > > software free, sounds really strange to me... > > Sounds to me more like they are trying to appropriate the word "free" > more than they are trying to keep software "free." As Goran has so Well, obviously we hear different things. I would say that FSF is quite clear on their part, there are numerous explanations on their site about what they mean. Whatever, we can agree to disagree on that. > skillfully observed, GPL does not require that the software be "free" as > in "free beer," and by its own terms, the software isn't free as in > liberty. Well, here we go again - do you mean "liberty 1a: the power to do as one pleases" or let's say "liberty 2a: a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant" or "liberty 2b: permission especially to go freely within specified limits"? Or perhaps meaning 4? ;-) My point: Saying "free as in liberty" does not really make it more clear cut to me. But I guess you are still implying "free" as in "having no constraints whatsoever" and in short: - You are perfectly right if that is what you mean by free. - Not all of us agree on that definition of free, especially not in this context (which is important). > The fact that I can't incorporate a GPL program in Squeak > proves the point. Well. It proves to me that SqueakL is not GPL compatible. It doesn't prove to me that GPL is "not free". > >> As to Goran's points, none of them are substantive. 1 and 2 amount to > >> name-calling, proving nothing. 3 is also name-calling and silly, > >> presuming that references to Microsoft somehow marginalizes an > >> argument, > >> and ignores the fact that a substantial contingent of the Slashdot > >> crowd > >> make the same arguments. And 4 simply states a conclusion. In short, > >> none of the four points constitute argument. Interestingly, the > > > > I didn't realize that I was in court! ;-) It was just a bunch of > > subjective statements > > but I still stand by them: > > > > 1. I HAVE heard this comparison over and over and it is boring TO ME at > > least. > > So? Why would that have any relevance to the validity of the analogy. I said exactly: "I do understand your observation but honestly - all these comparisons between FSF/GNU/Richard Stallman and Communism/Soviet Union are: 1. Quite boring because we have heard them oh so many times..." etc. In short - I said that the comparison is boring and that I did understand his observation. I did not say that the observation is invalid because it is boring. Right? This is mere wordplay. > > 2. Those making the comparison have often not read anything about the > > argument behind the GPL or the ideas of FSF. > > Evidence? Again, I don't think I am in court! :-) But that is still my impression. > > 3. Microsoft has clearly also been going after GPL/FSF calling it names > > thus trying to throw dirt on the "free/opensource community". > > Quote the Microsoft press release making the analogy. Come on, where have you been? :-) Sure there has not been (that I know of) a press release of that kind, but just use google: http://www.google.com/search?q=communism+GPL+microsoft&hl=sv&lr= or why not: http://www.google.com/search?hl=sv&q=communism+Steve+Ballmer&lr= Among the hits do read: http://w6.weblogs.com/2001/01/04/communismAndOpenSourceSoftware > > 4. And yes, I still think it is totally wrong comparing it with > > communism. > > And the reasons? For the simple reason that communism is something completely different, there are tons of differences and just minor values that are common. IMO. > >> paragraph after the numbered points proves too much -- the > >> "engineering" > >> of a society of software users seems, to me, to make the original > >> poster's point more than otherwise. > > > > I said that the LICENSE is engineered, not the users. Don't put words in > > my mouth, please. ;-) > > I'll stand by my remark, for reasons previously stated. I believe it > was apt. Well, I don't understand what you mean by that. I didn't say it. Period. > > My point is that the GPL has a different purpose than the > > BSD/MIT/SqueakL-like > > licenses and if you like that purpose then there is nothing "wrong" in > > it. > > And what, specifically, in your view, are those purposes? Well, trying to be short - the BSD/MIT/SqueakL (and more) is about sharing with as few constraints as possible. If that is what you want, fine. GPL is about preserving a number of freedoms for all users of the software. "Keeping it free" so to speak by constraining those actions that would take away those freedoms from other users. Of course it may have "holes" and "bugs" but the ideas are pretty clear to me and anyone else who bothers to read on www.gnu.org. Well, that is my clumsy way of describing the different purposes of the licenses. Of course you could probably describe it much better. > > Well, since the author thought GPL was like communism (I know, that > > wasn't his exact words) > > I think he has grossly misunderstood it, and that is why I stepped up to > > the plate. > > We are waiting for you to swing, then. What has he misunderstood. Can > you explain, without the platitudes, why it is inapposite? Unfortunately I have to run now (have to be somewhere in a few minutes) - I will get back with more on this one though, promise. > > And the list wasn't trying to prove anything, that was why I asked the > > question: > > > >>> I have a question here: What do you dislike about the GPL? (assuming > >>> that you do dislike the system of old Soviet Union) > >> > >> The fact that it ultimately limits what I can do with the software in a > >> manner that can rarely be repaired without substantial expense. I > >> can't > >> use GPL software in a monolithic image, and that's very bad for > > > > I would say that you can't use it it a NON GPLd monolithic image. And > > that > > is exactly what the author of the GPLd licensed code wants, right? > > Sorry, I misunderstood your meaning earlier, when you said they wanted > it to be free. Indeed, they just wanted it to be GPL. And again we are back at definitions of freedom and free... The rest of the posting seemed to be focused on that are too so I snipped it to get this one a bit shorter! ;-) regards, Göran

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Re: [celeste] moving from Communicator to Celeste....
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 02 Nov '01

02 Nov '01

Hi Jimmie. Generally, I suggest you play around with it a bit to get familiar with it - you can just download your mail to it - in the default state, it will leave your mail on the server, so it won't bother your usual archiving. Celeste has an interesting work model which is somewhat different from most mailers I know, so it's worth knowing what it's about before deciding whether to move, or what features it might benefit from. Jimmie Houchin <jhouchin(a)texoma.net> wrote: > I have 10s to 100+ mailboxes hierarchically organized. Ouch - that might be a problem. Celeste doesn't have hierarchial folders. I don't know if anyone uses it with 10s of categories, I have about 10, so I can't say if much more would still be comfortable. One way to find out, probably... > I have close to 600mb and 90,000 messages in mail. > I would love for Celeste to be able to handle that. I wouldn't worry about the load much - Celeste can probably handle that nicely, assuming you have about a few 10s of MB RAM for the indexes. > It seems to me (maybe incorrectly) that Celeste would need to do > similarly to other clients in that the mail file needs to be broken up > into multiple files, generally according to the mailbox scheme set up by > the user. Having one in-memory index is nice in that you slice your mail arbitrarily (for example, according to sender) across all categories very easily. That's a part of the Celeste way, and not likely to change. ("In memory" is an implementation detail, and thus pretty flexible, but the logical concept is pretty firm). > In Communicator each mailbox has it's own file and index. I believe > Eudora is similar. > > I asked my wife the other day what it would take to get her away from > Eudora. She's open to such a move but it would have to be reasonably > feature equivalent and user friendly. She and my children are currently > on Macs. > > It would be nice if Celeste had UI choices (skins, chromes, faces, > whatever). One of which was similar to the other email clients so that a > migration path could be made from Communicator, Outlook, Eudora, etc to > Celeste. After migrating and becoming comfortable with Celeste/Squeak > then they could possibly if they choose move to a potentially different > and more powerful UI. > > Being able to import or use standard mbox format mailboxes would be > great. I frequently join mailing lists which have either downloadable > archives or archives available from the mail server. It would be nice > for Celeste to handle that. > > For example this mailing list is archived (back to July 01) at: > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/ > > I look forward to using Celeste and hopefully contributing to it's > advancement once I become more Squeak proficient. > > Jimmie Houchin

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RE: I have a dream [dream has landed]
by G.J.Tielemans＠dinkel.utwente.nl 02 Nov '01

02 Nov '01

Would it not be better to accept that the WWW is the platform anf the best thing Squeak can do is become the uyltimate plug-inn, the ideal open webtool all the others can collaborate with? -----Original Message----- From: C. Gable Watts [mailto:Gable@Shaw.ca] Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 3:29 AM To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: Re: I have a dream >I have a dream. >In my mind I would like to see many of the productivity type apps with a high quality Squeak implementation. >Email, web-browser, word-processors, spreadsheets, PIM, etc. >At work I am on a WinME machine, at home LinuxBox, wife and children on Macs. > >Squeak supercedes the OS. Squeak can provide for reasonably seemless transition from one OS to another. As anyone who has used computers for any length of time can attest, OSes come OSes go. However Squeak can remain because it can ride on the wave. > >It would be nice if most of the truly important or critical apps were Squeak based. >Anyone else share this dream. :) I think all of us that have been Smalltalkers for a long time share this dream. I've always stated it slightly differently. I want to use a machine where Smalltalk IS the operating system (as it was designed and as Squeak is fully capable of being). And, of course, to have that I'd need all my usual apps built in Squeak. Many other have had this dream and have implemented huge parts of it in Squeak and in other Smalltalks. There was even several Smalltalk-based computers. Only one that I know of (Momenta) made it into production but I know of people who worked on other ones. C. Gable Watts Web: http://members.shaw.ca/Gable

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Re: [celeste] moving from Communicator to Celeste....
by danielv＠netvision.net.il 02 Nov '01

02 Nov '01

John Hinsley <jhinsley(a)telinco.co.uk> wrote: > But, since my little Rolodex thing uses Celeste, and since it's > obviously undergoing a good deal of development, a switch to Celeste > seems to make some kind of sense (at least in theory!) and I think, > somewhere in the back of my mind was the idea that it might acquire a > sort of database (or database like) functionality: you know the kind of > thing, somewhere, deep in my MySQL digest is the URL to a reference > someone on the HH list desperately needs. I could (and have!) easily > spent half an hour looking for it. Lex is working on strengthening Celeste's filtering capabilities, so you could add a category filter to get just you MySQL digests, then a search filter for what fragments you remember of the url, then add a date filter according to when you think it was, then scan. So you can narrow your search more or less any way you want to, in any order. I don't know if that's what you're thinking about... > On to specifics: > > danielv(a)netvision.net.il wrote: > > Anther question - > > Do you have a deep mail category tree? Celeste has a flat list. You'll > > have to think what you want to do with that. > > It's only two levels deep: inbox and then a flat layer of other > categories. That's Celeste's model so that won't be a problem. [Lots of messages -> lots of memory] > > I'll buy some more! It's actually pretty slow in Netscape, too. Well, more memory is always nice, but this would probably not be critical. I used a 64MB machine to read my 130 mail. And a smaller index is certainly doable if people find that's a problem. > > About the conversion - > > Nope, we don't have a Communicator format mail reader/importer. However, > > it's pretty easy to write them - that's how I converted from MH, for > > example - I wrote the class MHMainInboxFile (all two methods of it). > > Your milage might vary - but a Communicator filter would probably be > > useful to other people too. > > I'll take a look and see if I can make sense out of it. With my coding > skills, I may be gone for some time..... Cool, have fun. Feel free to mail me offline with any questions. > Mike and Bijan's postings have encouraged me to hold on for a moment, > but just let me know when you think the time is right, folks! > > Thanks again > > Cheers > > John > > > -- > If you don't care about your data, like file systems which automagically > destroy themselves and have money to burn on 3rd party tools to keep > your > system staggering on, Microsoft (tm) have the Operating System for you.

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