Squeak-dev February 2000

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163 participants
655 discussions

RE: [CCC] Object class comment
by Norton, Chris 29 Feb '00

29 Feb '00

Hi John-Reed. In addition to the other fine responses to your question (ProtoObject is the superclass of Object, et. al), I believe that people also define Proxy objects by subclassing nil (UndefinedObject), rather than Object. Proxy objects are common in systems with large, complex objects that are stored in a database. Cheers! ---==> Chris

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Re: newbie questions
by Michael Ackerman 29 Feb '00

29 Feb '00

Thanks to the several helpful people who answered my questions. -- Michael

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RE: Zope
by Ranjan Bagchi 29 Feb '00

29 Feb '00

[note -- not a lawyer] [note -- not necessarily squeak-related] What does CSRCS from www.componentsoftware.com do, then? They use GNU RCS and then they wrote some Windows shell extensions to version arbitrary files (I think it's pretty slick too). What they said they did is split the code into two DLL's, one which they'd give the source away for and another they didn't. My question is under what circumstances can GPL'd code be used by other software? I'd guess it'd be ok if nongpl'd "clients" were talking to gpl'd servers over HTTP. Would there be a problem if they plugged in a couple ORBs and used IIOP? Curious.. Ranjan --- agree(a)carltonfields.com wrote: > The problem does not go away. According to RMS, who > I take as an authority on the GPL (at least with > respect to whether questions under the GPL are > "arguable." There is also the issue of > modifications and reproduction (which the Courts > have cosntrued to be a natural consequence of use). > This has been discussed in a fair amount of depth > earlier. > > RMS has taken some unambiguous positions that > non-GPL'd code may not call GPL'd (as opposed to > LGPL'd code) in a DLL, without treating all of the > calling code as a derivative work. The OSS > community is fierce in its defense of a GPL > violation, even in fairly sympathetic, if not, > excusable scenarios. In view of all of this, it > would be silly for us to start creating problems for > ourselves by writing GPL software intended for use > in an image with non-GPL software. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

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Re: [CCC] Object class comment
by Lex Spoon 29 Feb '00

29 Feb '00

> Class Variables: > DependentsFields an IdentityDictionary > Go Dwight! I'd vote that we *avoid* these bare type declarations, myself. If you are going to define a class variable, it would be nicer to declare what the variable is actually used for: DependentsFields maps each object to its dependents. Useful for objects that do not have an explicit dependenst field, so that all objects may take part in the dependency mechanism. See Object>>dependents and its senders. Usually you can trace the definers-of to figure out what the class is, if you really need to know. In this case there are 6 references and one assignment, and the assignment makes it pretty clear what the class is. You *can't* do such a search to figure out a programmer's intent. Also, such an easy case is *really* easy for an automatic type inferencing tool, and hopefully Squeak will eventually be eventually equipped with such a tool. (plug plug) Lex

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Squeak Laptop Buddha
by John-Reed Maffeo 28 Feb '00

28 Feb '00

I am sure that someone here wants one of these. I know I do! http://www.mcphee.com/products/nerd/10476.html I am not affiliated with this link in any way. It popped up when I was surfing. John-Reed Maffeo Mesa, AZ

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Re: Zope
by Ranjan Bagchi 28 Feb '00

28 Feb '00

What we're talking about then is a Content Management System (CMS) in Squeak. The other product which is like Zope (but costs an astonishing amount of money) is Vignette StoryServer. I've been working with the latter and the way it's architected is with a plugin to the web server (Apache, Netscape, IIS). Squeak could do something similar pretty easily. The way which comes to mind is to use something like CORBA to make transparent the physicalization of the architecture (I could bypass network calls if the proceses were on the same machine, for instance). 'course we'd need a Squeak ORB for that (something I've been thinking of a lot lately). Ranjan --- Alan Kay <Alan.Kay(a)disney.com> wrote: > Also, Zope doesn't seem to have a version for the > Mac and is thus not > terribly omniplatform for the Internet. A Squeak > version would be really > interesting ... > > Cheers, > > Alan > > ------- > > At 9:13 AM -0800 2/28/00, James W. Howe wrote: > >At 09:51 PM 2/28/00 +0530, Mayuresh A Kathe wrote: > >>Hello everybody, > >> > >>Has anyone taken a look at Zope @ > http://www.zope.org > >> > >>It is using Squeak concepts and is getting really > popular. > >> > >>Maybe we could have something like that in Squeak. > >> > >>Bye. > > > >I'm currently working on a project using Zope. It > utilizes some very > >powerful concepts and after you spend some time > with it you can do some > >nice things in a very short period of time. Ever > since I started using > >it, however, I've wished that there was an > equivalent Smalltalk > >implementation for it. A Smalltalk verison, for > example, would be much > >easier to explore and extend. Zope is Python based > and the implementation > >is spread out over several directories and there > isn't a decent IDE to work > >with this information. Debugging is also quite > primitive. I think a > >combination of something like Comanche with a > Zope-like module would be > >quite useful. > > > >James W. Howe mailto:jwh@allencreek.com > >Allen Creek Software, Inc. pgpkey: > >http://ic.net/~jwh/pgpkey.html > >Ann Arbor, MI 48103 > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

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Re: Zope
by James W. Howe 28 Feb '00

28 Feb '00

At 09:51 PM 2/28/00 +0530, Mayuresh A Kathe wrote: >Hello everybody, > >Has anyone taken a look at Zope @ http://www.zope.org > >It is using Squeak concepts and is getting really popular. > >Maybe we could have something like that in Squeak. > >Bye. I'm currently working on a project using Zope. It utilizes some very powerful concepts and after you spend some time with it you can do some nice things in a very short period of time. Ever since I started using it, however, I've wished that there was an equivalent Smalltalk implementation for it. A Smalltalk verison, for example, would be much easier to explore and extend. Zope is Python based and the implementation is spread out over several directories and there isn't a decent IDE to work with this information. Debugging is also quite primitive. I think a combination of something like Comanche with a Zope-like module would be quite useful. James W. Howe mailto:jwh@allencreek.com Allen Creek Software, Inc. pgpkey: http://ic.net/~jwh/pgpkey.html Ann Arbor, MI 48103

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RE: How Do You Do Business Apps? (Morphic Design Philosophy)
by Alan Kay 28 Feb '00

28 Feb '00

Dan -- There will be some interesting examples not too many weeks from now ... Cheers, Alan ------ At 8:10 AM -0800 2/28/00, Dan Shafer wrote: >As I travel around speaking at and attending conferences and listening to >developers, I'm finding that more and more of them are in fact using Web >browsers as the UI to their apps. There is, of course, a great deal of >merit to this approach, though it is not without its own problems, >principally related to how to achieve anything like a fluid interface in >the browser given its inherently static nature. DHTML is poorly supported >cross-browser and Java on the client has no credibility. > >So how do we do Squeak "applets" that allow us to extend the browser UI in >some interesting and meaningful ways without getting into >platform-specific look-and-feel issues? I'm just starting to dig deeply >into Squeak, have become something of an addict, but haven't yet >encountered the answer to that question. > >-------------------------------------------------- >Dan Shafer, Founder, Chairman, CTO, The WeTalk Network >dan(a)wetalknetwork.comm - http://www.wetalknetwork.com >Helping change the world through rich online communities >-------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Peter Crowther Peter.Crowther(a)IT-IQ.com >Sent: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 12:12:22 -0000 >To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu >Subject: RE: How Do You Do Business Apps? (Morphic Design Philosophy) > > >> Just as a side comment, I'd like to point out that it is very easy to >> provide a "business" user interface with a web browser. > >Absolutely. And it's cross-platform on the client. I'm no longer >developing any standard Win32 applications within our organisation; it's all >browser. > > - Peter > > > > >______________________________________________________________________ >Get Visto.com! Private groups, event calendars, email, and much more. >Visto.com. Life on the Dot. >Check it out @ http://www.visto.com/info

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RE: Zope
by agree＠carltonfields.com 28 Feb '00

28 Feb '00

Be Wary! AIDA is GPL'd, rendering it useless with virtually every commercial Smalltalk system ever created, and probably Squeak as well. Recall that GPL's "viral" requirement arguably applies to all software in an image with which it is coextensive, making it virtually impossible to lawfully distribute the image thereafter. Unfortunately, a more relaxed construction of GPL is becoming impossible in view of the recent issues concerning uses of John Carmack's GPL'd Quake Software in the QuakeLives project, which has sought to exploit every loophole available in the GPL to avoid open-sourcing server security codes. I believe that, until there is a full-fledged GPL Smalltalk available or Smalltalk abandons the monolithic image, GPL'd code and Smalltalk will never coexist comfortably. > -----Original Message----- > From: MIME :knight@acm.org > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 3:59 PM > To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Subject: Re: Zope > > > See > http://wiki.cs.uiuc.edu/CampSmalltalk/Smalltalk+Web+Application+Server > > At 12:13 PM 28.02.2000 -0500, James W. Howe wrote: > >At 09:51 PM 2/28/00 +0530, Mayuresh A Kathe wrote: > >>Hello everybody, > >> > >>Has anyone taken a look at Zope @ http://www.zope.org > >> > >>It is using Squeak concepts and is getting really popular. > >> > >>Maybe we could have something like that in Squeak. > >> > >>Bye. > > > >I'm currently working on a project using Zope. It utilizes > some very >powerful concepts and after you spend some time > with it you can do some >nice things in a very short period > of time. Ever since I started using >it, however, I've > wished that there was an equivalent Smalltalk >implementation > for it. A Smalltalk verison, for example, would be much > >easier to explore and extend. Zope is Python based and the > implementation >is spread out over several directories and > there isn't a decent IDE to >work with this information. > Debugging is also quite primitive. I think a >combination of > something like Comanche with a Zope-like module would be > >quite useful. > > > >James W. Howe mailto:jwh@allencreek.com > >Allen Creek Software, Inc. pgpkey: >http://ic.net/~jwh/pgpkey.html >Ann Arbor, MI 48103 -- *** WE'VE MOVED! Note the new phone numbers**** Alan Knight [|] knight(a)acm.org The Object People 613.569.8855 (v) 613.569.9418 (f)

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RE: How Do You Do Business Apps?
by Richard A. O'Keefe 28 Feb '00

28 Feb '00

Warren Postma wrote: Beyond that, the parallels between Squeak/MVC/Morphic and Tcl/Tk are many: 2. both lack any kind of easy to use gui-builder functionality, which makes it hard for anyone new to adopt them Er, what is SpecTcl if not "gui-builder functionality"?

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