Squeak-dev October 1999

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

141 participants
396 discussions

example network apps?
by Mark Morrissey 29 Oct '99

29 Oct '99

Does anyone have any example network programs in Squeak of which I could get a copy? I haven't programmed in smalltalk in about 9 years, but since I found that Squeak has network primitives, my old fascination with smalltalk has been rekindled. I teach graduate level network protocols and programming courses and would like my students to see example frameworks for network programming from as many different environments as possible. So if someone has some example programs that they would be willing to share with me, I would appreciate it. As a side note: under both WinNT and Solaris 2.7 (Squeak 2.5 and 2.6), I am unable to get even the ping test to run. Am I missing something obvious? Thank you, --mark --- Mark Morrissey Director of Special Projects markm(a)cse.ogi.edu The Oregon Graduate Institute (503) 748-7053 Department of Computer Science and Engineering

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RE: [UPDATES]
by Norton, Chris 29 Oct '99

29 Oct '99

Hi Dan & co. Bruce's question about change sets and your response reminded me to ask about change set preambles. Because the change set preamble often contains more information about the feature or fix that was included into the mainline than the comments in the actual code, I think that some important information is lost when the change sets are purged from new images. Over the last year, for example, we have had hundreds of change sets, for a variety of features, that have imparted key information about the features they introduced/fixed/replaced. Is there an archive of change set preambles that can be accessed by the Squeak community? Thanks. ---==> Chris PS> I included the rest of the Squeak community on the list because I think all of us would be interested in such a repository.

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RE: Graphics Benchmark (was Re: Squeak on SPARClassic, other speedquestions.)
by Raab, Andreas 29 Oct '99

29 Oct '99

Doug, This is really interesting! <snip> > 300 MHz VAResearch Pentium II, Windows NT, ATI 3D RAGE IIC AGP card > 8-bit Sqk: 16-bit Sqk: 32-bit Sqk: > Host OS = 8-bit: 951 941 5257 5258 5548 5538 > Host OS = 16-bit: 931 931 1282 1272 3395 3375 > Host OS = 24-bit: 991 982 1682 1672 3315 3355 > Host OS = "True Color": 1101 1112 1552 1553 1632 1612 > > > 180 MHz Toshiba Pentium I laptop, Windows 95, Chips & Tech. 65554 PCI > board > 8-bit Sqk: 16-bit Sqk: 32-bit Sqk: > Host OS = 8-bit: 6829 6762 8574 8924 11489 11521 > Host OS = 16-bit: 7432 7441 9282 9265 11523 11428 > Host OS = 24-bit: 8162 8128 10184 10143 14288 14305 <snap> I think that the major speed difference you're seeing is mainly due to the different graphics drivers (e.g., ATI always had relatively good drivers). This can make a huge difference since Squeak uses just one function and if this function isn't properly implemented by the card Windows falls back into some weird conversion code. It might be interesting to see how the values look if you *don't* draw this stuff actually onto the display (e.g., the 'raw' internal morphic drawing speed). Andreas -- +===== Andreas Raab ========= (andreasr(a)wdi.disney.com) ==+ | Walt Disney Imagineering Phone: +1 818 544 5016 I I Glendale, CA Fax: +1 818 544 4544 I +======< http://isgwww.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~raab >========+ > ---------- > From: Doug Way > Reply To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 11:06 PM > To: Squeak > Cc: recipient list not shown > Subject: Graphics Benchmark (was Re: Squeak on SPARClassic, other > speedquestions.) > > <<File: simpleGraphicsBenchmark.st>> > > On Wed, 27 Oct 1999, John Duncan wrote: > > > Also, I was wondering. On my P233 ThinkPad, Morphic is a dog, > > especially in 2.6. I heard people discussing the high speed of > > PMacSqueak and the dogginess of IntelSqueak. The 'lassic, being a > > big-endian machine with tons of registers, is supposed to have an > > architectural advantage for Squeak over the Intels, but is this enough > > to make Morphic fast at low clock rates? > > Often, if Morphic "feels" slow, the kind of graphics card you have or your > screen depth setting will matter as much or more than the type of CPU. > The benchmarks that come with Squeak measure message send and bytecode > speed, so they won't help you with figuring out graphics card/screen depth > issues. > > So, I whipped up a simple benchmark which attempts to measure graphics > performance in Squeak. (See the bottom of this message. Run "Morph > simpleGraphicsBenchmark".) > > It's fairly brain-dead... it just opens a workspace at a fixed size, and > scrolls a bunch of text up and down 20 times. (It does temporarily > disable inboard scrollbars, which can be a factor.) The results seem > fairly consistent. Having a much larger or smaller default font makes a > slight difference in the outcome (though not much), so it's best to run > this with the default font settings. > > The benchmark mostly exercises the DisplayScreen primitive, plus some > character scanning code. > > Fancier benchmarks ("speed tests" might be a better term) could probably > be created which measure the performance of common Morphic operations such > as resizing windows (in non-fastDrag mode)... > > Here are some results from some tests I ran. (I ran 2 tests per screen > depth combination.) Mostly, you just want to pay attention to the values > where Squeak's screen depth matches the host OS's screen depth, although > the other values can be interesting. (e.g., on the NT box, you pay a huge > penalty if the two don't match, but it's not as big on deal on the other > platforms.) > > Anyway, I find Morphic very usable at a value of 1000, reasonably usable > at around 3000, and pretty tough to use above 7000 or so. > > - Doug Way > EAI/Transom Technogies, Ann Arbor, MI > dway(a)eai.com, dway(a)mat.net > http://www.transom.com > > > > 266 MHz Apple iMac: > 8-bit Sqk: 16-bit Sqk: 32-bit Sqk: > Host OS = 8-bit: 1512 1510 2287 2282 3123 3138 > Host OS = 16-bit: 2321 2330 2023 2027 3165 3149 > Host OS = 24-bit: 3049 3024 2959 2978 3075 3044 > > > 300 MHz Apple iBook: > 8-bit Sqk: 16-bit Sqk: 32-bit Sqk: > Host OS = 8-bit: 1226 1223 2033 2022 2870 2883 > Host OS = 16-bit: 2247 2249 1621 1616 2752 2721 > Host OS = 24-bit: 3431 3425 1983 1979 2586 2542 > > > 300 MHz VAResearch Pentium II, Windows NT, ATI 3D RAGE IIC AGP card > 8-bit Sqk: 16-bit Sqk: 32-bit Sqk: > Host OS = 8-bit: 951 941 5257 5258 5548 5538 > Host OS = 16-bit: 931 931 1282 1272 3395 3375 > Host OS = 24-bit: 991 982 1682 1672 3315 3355 > Host OS = "True Color": 1101 1112 1552 1553 1632 1612 > > > 180 MHz Toshiba Pentium I laptop, Windows 95, Chips & Tech. 65554 PCI > board > 8-bit Sqk: 16-bit Sqk: 32-bit Sqk: > Host OS = 8-bit: 6829 6762 8574 8924 11489 11521 > Host OS = 16-bit: 7432 7441 9282 9265 11523 11428 > Host OS = 24-bit: 8162 8128 10184 10143 14288 14305 > > > >

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Re: license
by Alan Kay 29 Oct '99

29 Oct '99

Thanks Marcus -- Well, this is the problem with most of these licences that "aren't transitive". Presumably, a way around this might be to just have URLs for these fonts in Squeak with an automatic mechanism for retrieving them only when each individual user says they want them? This way, they aren't actually shipped with Squeak, but can be gotten anytime a Squeak is on the net .... How about it Andrew? Cheers, Alan ------ At 5:56 AM -0800 10/29/99, Marcus Denker wrote: >On Fri, Oct 29, 1999 at 04:23:55AM -0800, Alan Kay wrote: >> Marcus -- >> >> Does "donate" mean more than the fonts can be used in Squeak? -- does it >> also mean that they can be "passed along" from app builders to app builders >> and to users? >> > >File "Fontmap" (part of urw-fonts.tar.gz) contains the following >copyright-notice: > >% >% Fonts contributed by: >% URW++ Design and Development Incorporated >% Poppenbuetteler Bogen 29A >% D-22399 Hamburg >% Germany >% tel. +49 (40) 60 60 50 >% fax +49 (40) 60 60 51 11 >% for distribution under the GNU License and Aladdin Free Public License. >% See the notice at the head of this Fontmap file for licensing terms. >% Each of these fonts is individually covered by the license: >% for licensing purposes, they are not "part of" any larger entity. >% The following notice applies to these fonts: >% >% Copyright URW Software, Copyright 1994 by URW. >% > >So the Fonts are licensed under the GNU GPL or the Aladdin >License: >Aladdin License: http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~ghost/aladdin/doc/Public.htm >GPL: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html > >The Aladdin Free Public License allows free use, copying, and >distribution by end users, but does not allow commercial distribution. >So Aladdin-Licensed fonts can not be included in Squeak. > >But I think it should be possible to include the URW-Fonts when >they are GPled. The copyright-notice says: > > Each of these fonts is individually covered by the license: > for licensing purposes, they are not "part of" any larger entity. > >So part 2b) of the GPL (the famous "GPL Virus") should be no problem: > > b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in > whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any > part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third > parties under the terms of this License. > > >One Problem remains: the single *.afm - Files contain following >copyright: > > StartFontMetrics 3.0 RETURN) > Comment Copyright URW Software, Copyright 1996 by URW > Comment Creation Date: 2/16/1996 > Comment See the file PUBLIC (Aladdin Free Public License) for license > conditions > >Strange. We should ask Aladdin (L. Peter Deutsch) or URW under which >license the fonts really are. > > Marcus > > > >-- >Marcus Denker marcus(a)ira.uka.de phone@home:(0721)614235 >@work:(0721)608-2749

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Re: Definitive guide to sizing and positioning Morphs?
by Bob Arning 29 Oct '99

29 Oct '99

On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:37:34 -0700 "John Tobler" <squeakie(a)visto.com> wrote: >Can some kind soul please point me to a useful reference >for understanding how to control nested morph sizing and >placement (particularly for AlignmentMorph and subclasses >based upon it)? > >Example problems: > > 1. Construct a resizable box that will contain > several other morphs. Place a morphic "color > bar" across the top such that its height is > always 10% of the total height of the containing > box. > > 2. Construct a resizable box containing two > "row" morphs. The top row is to contain > three buttons (morphs) labelled "left," > "middle," and "right" -- one flush left, > one centered, and one flush right. John, Examples follow. Cheers, Bob ============================================ 'From Squeak 2.5 of August 6, 1999 on 29 October 1999 at 10:56:34 am'! "Change Set: BobForJT Date: 29 October 1999 Author: Bob Arning Answers to two questions by John Tobler"! Object subclass: #Bob1 instanceVariableNames: '' classVariableNames: '' poolDictionaries: '' category: 'Bob-Bob'! AlignmentMorph subclass: #PercentageOfParentMorph instanceVariableNames: 'heightPercent widthPercent ' classVariableNames: '' poolDictionaries: '' category: 'Bob-Bob'! !Bob1 commentStamp: 'RAA 10/29/1999 10:55' prior: 0! On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 23:37:34 -0700 "John Tobler" <squeakie(a)visto.com> wrote: >Can some kind soul please point me to a useful reference >for understanding how to control nested morph sizing and >placement (particularly for AlignmentMorph and subclasses >based upon it)? > >Example problems: > > 1. Construct a resizable box that will contain > several other morphs. Place a morphic "color > bar" across the top such that its height is > always 10% of the total height of the containing > box. Evaluate (Bob1 new test1) > 2. Construct a resizable box containing two > "row" morphs. The top row is to contain > three buttons (morphs) labelled "left," > "middle," and "right" -- one flush left, > one centered, and one flush right. Evaluate (Bob1 new test2) ! ]style[(533 14 251 14 2)f1,f1cblue;,f1,f1cblue;,f1! !Bob1 methodsFor: 'as yet unclassified' stamp: 'RAA 10/29/1999 10:49'! test1 " Wherein we create a morph one of whose submorphs is contrained (vertically in this case) to s percentage of its parent's size. Bob1 new test1 " | outer row | outer _ AlignmentMorph newColumn extent: 300@100. outer addMorphBack: ( (row _ PercentageOfParentMorph newRow color: Color black; heightPercent: 0.1; vResizing: #shrinkWrap) ). 3 timesRepeat: [ outer addMorphBack: ( (row _ AlignmentMorph newRow color: Color transparent"; minCellSize: 30") ). 4 timesRepeat: [ row addMorphBack: ( AlignmentMorph newColumn color: Color random ) ]. ]. outer openInWorld. ! ! !Bob1 methodsFor: 'as yet unclassified' stamp: 'RAA 10/29/1999 10:51'! test2 " Wherein we create a row of buttons, one flush left, one centered and one flush right Bob1 new test2 " | outer | outer _ AlignmentMorph newColumn extent: 300@100. outer addMorphBack: ( (AlignmentMorph newRow color: Color lightRed; vResizing: #shrinkWrap) addMorphBack: ( AlignmentMorph newColumn color: Color transparent; centering: #topLeft; addMorphBack: ( SimpleButtonMorph new label: 'Left' ) ); addMorphBack: ( AlignmentMorph newColumn color: Color transparent; centering: #center; addMorphBack: ( SimpleButtonMorph new label: 'Center' ) ); addMorphBack: ( AlignmentMorph newColumn color: Color transparent; centering: #bottomRight; addMorphBack: ( SimpleButtonMorph new label: 'Right' ) ) ). outer addMorphBack: ( AlignmentMorph newRow color: Color lightBlue ). outer openInWorld. ! ! !PercentageOfParentMorph methodsFor: 'as yet unclassified' stamp: 'RAA 10/29/1999 10:45'! heightPercent: aFloat heightPercent _ aFloat! ! !PercentageOfParentMorph methodsFor: 'as yet unclassified' stamp: 'RAA 10/29/1999 10:44'! minHeight heightPercent ifNil: [^super minHeight]. ^(owner height * heightPercent) asInteger! ! "Postscript: " StringHolder new textContents: Bob1 comment; openLabel: '2 morphic examples'!

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appleevents
by Lee Phillips 29 Oct '99

29 Oct '99

The Applescript interface works great. But is there a way to respond to incoming appleevents?

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RE: license
by agree＠carltonfields.com 29 Oct '99

29 Oct '99

Of course, all of Donald Knuth's Computer Modern fonts (and the Concrete Math fonts, which are quite interesting) are in the public domain, and bitmap font versions are available everywhere or easily generated via MetaFont. Blue Sky Research (not Blue Sky Software) has made Postscript fonts for the entire CM (and Concrete M) set available, either by putting it in the public domain or a very liberal license. ftp://ftp.bluesky.com/pub/fonts/Computer_Modern_PostScript/ (They may have also made the AMS fonts available, but I don't recall if they were free). While some of them didn't age so well, I still am quite fond of many of the glyphs. And we can always ask Adobe to throw us a bone, at least with the Postscript standard fonts :-) > -----Original Message----- > From: MIME :Alan.Kay@disney.com > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 6:22 PM > To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Subject: RE: license > > > Bob -- > > Almost. The "system font" of Squeak is one that we found on > the network and > that allows unlimited distribution through derivatives. The > other fonts are > subject to their various restrictions. When we get around to > it, we plan to > make a set of TrueType fonts that can travel with Squeak (as > can anyone who > wishes right now). > > Cheers, > > Alan > > ------- > > At 10:19 AM -0800 10/28/99, Jarvis, Robert P. wrote: > >Hmmm. So, if one wants to charge for a Squeak derivative > one must expunge > >the Squeak-supplied fonts from the image, replacing them > with new fonts. > >Interesting... > > > >Bob Jarvis > >The Timken Company > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: agree(a)carltonfields.com [SMTP:agree@carltonfields.com] > >> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 1:36 PM > >> To: StefanRieken(a)SoftHome.net; squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > >> Subject: RE: license > >> > >> > I think Squeak users may have trouble finding a valid > license. The > >> > distribution doesn't come with one (AFAIK). And, more > important: the > >> > license on the Squeak Website is on the name of Apple, while the > >> > copyrights are now of Disney (?) Or am I mistaking? > >> > >> Apple is apparently the owner of the base Squeak system > (and the 68000 > >> Smalltalk system on which it was directly based). The > license permitted > >> the creation of derivative works created therefrom, > subject to the terms > >> of the license, which further provided a right to > distribute only subject > >> to the following: > >> > >> "You may distribute and sublicense such Modified Software > only under the > >> terms of a valid, binding license that makes no representations or > >> warranties on behalf of Apple, and is no less protective > of Apple and > >> Apple's rights than this License." > >> > >> and further providing: > >> > >> "If the Modified Software contains modifications, overwrites, > >> replacements, deletions, additions, or ports to new > platforms of: (1) the > >> methods of existing class objects or their existing > relationships, or (2) > >> any part of the virtual machine, then ***for so long as > the Modified > >> Software is distributed or sublicensed to others, such modified, > >> overwritten, replaced, deleted, added and ported portions > of the Modified > >> Software must be made publicly available, preferably by > means of download > >> from a website, at no charge under the terms set forth in Exhibit A > >> below.***" > >> > >> Exhibit A, in turn provides: > >> > >> "EXHIBIT A > >> License. You may copy, install, use, modify and create > derivative works of > >> the [Modified Software] "Changed Software" (but you may > not modify or > >> create derivative works of the [Fonts]) and distribute and > sublicense such > >> Changed Software, provided however, that if the Changed > Software contains > >> modifications, overwrites, replacements, deletions, > additions, or ports to > >> new platforms of: (1) the methods of existing classes > objects or their > >> existing relationships, or (2) any part of the virtual > machine, then for > >> so long as the Changed Software is distributed or > sublicensed to others, > >> such modified, overwritten, replaced, deleted, added and > ported portions > >> of the Changed Software must be made publicly available, > preferably by > >> means of download from a website, at no charge under the terms of a > >> license that makes no representations or warranties on > behalf of any third > >> party, is no less protective of [the licensors of the > Modified Software] > >> and its licensors, and contains the terms set forth in > Exhibit A below > >> [which should contain the terms of this Exhibit A]. You > may distribute and > >> sublicense the [Fonts] only as a part of and for use with Changed > >> Software, and not as a part of or for use with Changed > Software that is > >> distributed or sublicensed for a fee or for other valuable > consideration." > >> > >> Accordingly, Disney's (and many of our) contributions to > the code, to the > >> extent they are Modified Software, and to the extent > distributed to third > >> parties, are subject to the Exhibit A License. Some > purely original code > >> may or may not be within its aegis, but may well fall > within its scope by > >> operation of law or implied fact. It might not be a bad > idea to consider > >> which code in Squeak 2.6 might not be Modified Software, > and to assure > >> that express licenses are obtained and granted. It may be fairly > >> difficult to provide such a package without changing the > "the methods of > >> existing classes, objects or their existing relationships" > (the latter > >> being the trick to avoid) or making "additions" to them, so most > >> contributions I have considered (in an admittedly casual > reflection) are > >> probably Modified Software or Changed Software. > >> > >> Now, I suppose that the license permits creation of a new > license for > >> present day Squeak, with a variation of language to make > clearer the > >> relationship between Apple, Disney, third-party > contributors and you. For > >> example, Disney might contemplate issuing a new Squeak > License, which has > >> broader coverage than the definition of Modified Software > (perhaps akin to > >> GPL, Mozilla, Jini or Apple's new OSS licenses -- taking > care not to > >> extend the virus too broadly, leaving outs for entirely independent > >> packages that are not Modified Software), which may be "at least as > >> protective" of Apple and prior contributors as the Apple > license. BSD may > >> not satisfy the constraints, in that it may be read not to > include all of > >> the terms of Exhibit A. I leave that decision entirely > within the hands > >> of Disney and its excellent array of IP and computer > lawyers. [On the > >> other hand, if you want to start a movement, write your > own proposed > >> license, and offer a modification subject only to your license. If > >> accepted, something might happen.] > >> > >> It remains unclear to me that any such effort is necessary > at this time, > >> and that the implied-in-law or implied-in-fact licenses > derived thereby > >> are adequately clear. This is not to say the problem isn't worth > >> revisiting from time to time, only that the concerns to which I am > >> replying appear somewhat overstated. > >> > >> The following is somewhat obligatory so I can continue to > practice law and > >> hack in my spare time, please bear with me: The preceding > survey of the > >> license is hardly a comprehensive study necessary to arrive at any > >> reasonable legal conclusions, and it is offered solely to > provide an > >> outline for your individual analyses and study of these > issues. None of > >> this should be construed as legal advice, which would require the > >> application of applicable law to the particular facts and > details of the > >> software you are actually using. To the extent you have > any concern at > >> all about this matter, you should consult a qualified > attorney to examine > >> your particular facts and details and rely upon his or her advices. > > > > > >

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RE: [FIX?][ENH?][GOODIE?] CachedFonts/TextStyles/WYSIWYG menus/Musings
by Doug Way 29 Oct '99

29 Oct '99

On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Robin Gibson wrote: > agree(a)carltonfields.com wrote: > > > Your screenshot with all the fonts is > > > probably worth adding to the screenshots page, too. > > > > I don't disagree with any of these sentiments, I think this is all > great stuff. But as the token lawyer among us, I need to say the > seriously unfun thing: Do we have the rights to those fonts? Under > the Squeak license, certain Apple-owned fonts were within the scope of > the license -- are these they? Are the new strikefonts unauthorized > derivative works? > > Probably. They are up for demonstration purposes right now, but can > easily be replaced by either the Apple owned fonts you mentioned or > public domain fonts. I'll hold off on adding the Swiki links, then. The screenshot would probably be okay on the Swiki, though, as a demonstration of what you can do with different fonts. (I'm guessing the fonts were from that Microsoft site? It looked like those were freely distributable for personal use, but not for use as part of a commercial product.) Anyway, it would be nice to find some more truly free fonts which looked decent as Strikefonts. There are lots of free font sites on the web (e.g. http://www.freesources.com/fonts.shtml), but they tend to be wackier fonts more suited for large type, and they don't usually have hinting. Probably the best bet would be to find some free fonts which were already bitmaps... seems more likely than finding free fonts with hinting. (And of course getting TrueType support working would be cool, but that may be further down the road...) - Doug Way dway(a)mat.net

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Definitive guide to sizing and positioning Morphs?
by John Tobler 29 Oct '99

29 Oct '99

Can some kind soul please point me to a useful reference for understanding how to control nested morph sizing and placement (particularly for AlignmentMorph and subclasses based upon it)? Example problems: 1. Construct a resizable box that will contain several other morphs. Place a morphic "color bar" across the top such that its height is always 10% of the total height of the containing box. 2. Construct a resizable box containing two "row" morphs. The top row is to contain three buttons (morphs) labelled "left," "middle," and "right" -- one flush left, one centered, and one flush right. How does a Morphic Wizard approach such problems? Which sizing and positioning tools are the equivalent of a handyman's level, square, hammer, screwdriver, baling wire, and duct tape? Has anyone already summarized this somewhere? Blessings! John Tobler ______________________________________________________________________ Get Visto.com! Private groups, event calendars, email, and much more. Visto.com. Life on the Dot. Check it out @ http://www.visto.com/info

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Squeak on SPARClassic, other speed questions.
by John Duncan 29 Oct '99

29 Oct '99

Anyone running Squeak on a SPARClassic? What's it like? I thought I might get one of these machines (for free) but I'm trying to stop my habit of getting machines I won't use. Also, I was wondering. On my P233 ThinkPad, Morphic is a dog, especially in 2.6. I heard people discussing the high speed of PMacSqueak and the dogginess of IntelSqueak. The 'lassic, being a big-endian machine with tons of registers, is supposed to have an architectural advantage for Squeak over the Intels, but is this enough to make Morphic fast at low clock rates? What do you think? -- "In any event, once Robert Craft forged the Stravinsky-Schoenberg axis in the 1950s and the eclecticism of the 1960s alleviated the austere serialism of the previous decade, the futures market in Hindemithian repose was struck by panic selling." -Glenn Gould

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