Squeak-dev November 1998

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

128 participants
265 discussions

44 new updates
by Dan Ingalls 25 Nov '98

25 Nov '98

Folks - I have just put out 44 more updates. There will be a few more to come today. Note that this is only for completeness, prefatory to putting out the 2.3 beta image. I would not bother updating unless you are maintaining an independent fork of Squeak. It will be much simpler just to get the beta or final release of 2.3. I will have more to say about the many new features when I put out the 2.3 beta image. - Dan

1 0

Squeak licensing questions
by Paul Fernhout 25 Nov '98

25 Nov '98

Dear Squeakers, I have a few questions about the Squeak license and was wondering if people on the list could help me out in getting them answered. Definitive answers from authoritative source are especially welcome, however general kibitzing would be of interest to me as well, especially in terms of pointing out questions I haven't thought to ask. 1. Are all the releases of Squeak (including the ones by Disney, with a Disney copyright) under the same license? 2. Are all the add-ons included in the Squeak distribution (like the pluggable web server) under the same license? If not, which ones are under a different license and what are the licensing terms? Is there any formal process by which permission is given for various contributions to be under the terms of the Squeak license? (For instance, I think the FSF has contributors to certain projects like GCC sign something and snail-mail it in.) If not, could use of included software or patches later be claimed successfully not to be really covered by the Squeak license? Is there anything special about Squeak and Smalltalk that make the issue of accepting user contributions different then say for the open source Python project (which is used by several companies and NASA)? 3. Are the various VMs and supporting code and documentation (Windows, UNIX, LINUX, Acorn, etc.) entirely under the Squeak license? If not, how much of them is, and what are the terms for the rest of the package? 4. Is there any other software available to work with Squeak and commonly used and expected to be used with it (not part of the Disney distribution) which is under the same Squeak licensing terms? Are there any such products under significantly different terms (GPL, PD, BSD, non-commercial use only, shareware, ad-hoc, etc.)? 5. Can one maintain a clean distinction between changes to the VM and code the VM calls? If so, how? For example, if you link in a 3D graphics package written in C, with a few primitives to call it, would that be considered part of the VM and then subject to free redistribution of source and binary? Or would just the VM code changes but not the called code (in effect, just part of the 3D API adapted to Squeak) have to be given away? Would the supporting Smalltalk code to use the VM changes also have to be distributed? Does it matter if the code linked in to the VM is your own code or that of a third party vendor licensed as a library? Does it make a difference if the new VM code is written in Smalltalk and generated into C as part of the VM, as opposed to the new code being written in C and patched into an already generated VM? 6. Is there a list of major corporations besides Apple and Disney (like GE, GM, Walmart, Microsoft, etc.) who have gotten the Squeak software approved by internal Intellectual Property (IP) lawyers for use for R&D, in-house tools, making an external demonstration, or shipping a product? Would any of those IP lawyers (or ones at Disney or Apple) be willing to talk to other IP lawyers in other companies about Squeak licensing issues? 7. What is the current status of fonts -- i.e. does that issue of not distributing the Apple fonts still apply, and are those fonts still included with Squeak? If so, how are they removed and replaced in a way that would allow one to ship or demonstrate a product incorporating Squeak? 8. If one builds Squeak into a hardware product (for sale or demonstration), does any of the source need to be distributed? If so, what part and when? 9. In general, how soon after release of a modified VM or software with modified base class methods does the source need to be released? (I've heard of this loophole cited as a reason not to release source when asked). 10. Are there any other licensing issues involving Squeak that have come up which I (or an IP lawyer, which I am not) should be thinking about if Squeak is going to be used in a major company? Are there any random "gotchas" in the license an IP lawyer will flag, and if so, are there any ways around them? The closest thing I've seen in the recent past to a discussion on these issues is "Squeak 2.0 for Debian GNU/Linux" Thu, 9 Jul 1998 21:55:53 +0200 From: Marcus Denker <marcus(a)ira.uka.de>, where he brought up the font issue, and mentioned that export law restrictions restrict Squeak from being part of the Debian distribution (because it would restrict what countries could receive the distribution). Presumably this export law restriction would not be a major problem for a US division of a company making any product using Squeak for distribution, since it is legally bound by that law itself. Are there any other recent discussions of licensing issues I should be aware of? It has been said "Don't worry. Apple has already forgot about it..." in terms of the license and its enforcement. However that probably won't cut it with IP lawyers of a major corporation. These are sorts of questions such a lawyer might ask, and it would be nice to have ready answers available for anyone contemplating getting Squeak into their organization. -Paul Fernhout Kurtz-Fernhout Software http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com ========================================================= Developers of custom software and educational simulations Creators of the open source Garden with Insight(TM) garden simulator Creators of the StoryHarp(TM) Audioventure Authoring System

2 1

Re: Squeak for embedded systems (remote debugging and image
by Jerome.Garcia＠wj.com 25 Nov '98

25 Nov '98

> To support using Squeak in embedded systems and memory-constrained ones like Newtons, I'm exploring the idea of making a headless version of Squeak with minimal footprint that can be remotely interacted with from a headed Squeak via TCP/IP. Tools such as these might also be useful for debugging "headless" Squeak images embedded in applications like web browsers or web servers. > I would like to see Squeak images embedded in robots in your list. > 6. Can people think of other useful reasons to have such tools? I have found the equivalent VisualWORKS and ControlWORKSs tools which we use for development of semiconductor processing equipment software to be extremely valuable. Most of the time, we can debug embedded Smalltalk code (embedded OS is VxWorks) on the fly without even having to shut down the equipment. In this case, the embedded images are stored on the NT frontend system and loaded into the embedded systems during bootup. Debugging is performed on the NT frontend. It is a distributed application with at least 3 images involved between the NT workstation and the embedded systems. I would really like to see this capability available in Squeak. >open a TCP/IP connection (or maybe just plain serial) to that VM from a Support TCP/TP and you can speak to just about the whole world. I have found debugging and expect to find testing of factory interfaces much nicer via ethernet than having to attach a serial cable to equipment. Especially if the equipment I want to attach to is elsewhere. I am sorry that I cannot offer any advice on the Squeak side of the problem being a novice. If you have any questions that might be answered by my experience with the semiconductor software please feel free to ask. -- Jerome E. Garcia jegarcia(a)adventurousmind.com

1 0

Re: Please HELP promote Squeak.
by Tim Rowledge 25 Nov '98

25 Nov '98

On Wed 25 Nov, Jerry Fass wrote: > Greetings all, from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA. > > I have begun a Squeak page on Open Directory: > http://directory.mozilla.org/Computers/Programming_Languages/Squeak Oh my, Jerry, such flattery, and at the top of the list too... I just want everyone to know that I did not pay Jerry, or anyone in his family for this entry. We have no innapropriate relationship. tim -- I used to have a life, then I got v32bis! Tim Rowledge: rowledge(a)interval.com (w) +1 (650) 842-6110 (w) tim(a)sumeru.stanford.edu (h) <http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim>

2 1

Re: Class LinearFit - What does the comment mean?
by Leandro Caniglia 25 Nov '98

25 Nov '98

>The comment for class LinearFit (a subclass of Path) says : > >"I represent a piece-wise linear approximation to a set of >points in the plane." > > >Is this a correct statement? I think that the author was thinking about a linear interpolation problem. In these problems you want the graph of a function, but you only have some points of it. A linear interpolation is obtained joining the points with segments. Hope this helps Leandro

3 2

Squeak for embedded systems (remote debugging and image building)
by Paul Fernhout 25 Nov '98

25 Nov '98

Hi Squeakers, To support using Squeak in embedded systems and memory-constrained ones like Newtons, I'm exploring the idea of making a headless version of Squeak with minimal footprint that can be remotely interacted with from a headed Squeak via TCP/IP. Tools such as these might also be useful for debugging "headless" Squeak images embedded in applications like web browsers or web servers. I am wondering if anyone else is working or has worked in this area. A few questions: 1. Has anyone already ported Squeak to a real-time embedded OS like QNX or VxWorks? How long do you think it would take for bare bones support? 2. Has anyone developed a cross-development system for Squeak (debugging one image from another?) Are such readily available under an open source license from any source? 3. Has anyone got tools for building up an image from scratch? I know there was talk a year or so back about someone rebuilding the Squeak image from scratch. How was that done? 4. Has anyone else split the Squeak source into independently loadable packages? 5. Does the headless code work well? Is there anything I would need to improve on right away to make this practical? Has debugging such applications been difficult in the past? 6. Can people think of other useful reasons to have such tools? 7. Anyone have any other generally useful advice in this endeavor? Some more background: You can do remote debugging now with VisualAge Smalltalk to remotely debug a headless Smalltalk image running on a mainframe. Pocket Smalltalk for the Pilot by Andrew Brault. http://www.tiac.net/users/ajb/pocketst/index.html is an example of a cross-compiler from Dolphin Smalltalk to an essentially headless Pilot Smalltalk VM (in the emulated widgets sense) that talks to host windows. What I want to do ideally is a combination of the VisualAge remote development idea with the Pocket Smalltalk lightness focus. I think OTI embedded Smalltalk may work much like this. I'm thinking about taking these general ideas and making them work with Squeak bytecodes, Squeak classes, and Squeak 32-bit architecture. I'm willing to let real-time issues slide for now (like semaphores and GC delays and hooking Interrupt Service Routines), although obviously one would want to add support for these eventually. My key interest at the moment is in getting a system that is small and which can direct (not implement) real-time processes, and for which the compiler and development environment on the target is optional. Here is what I have in mind as an ideal: You compile the core VM for your target (remote) system with various OS hooks and get it there somehow. You then run that VM on the target, without an image. The VM goes into a receptive/debugging mode. You then open a TCP/IP connection (or maybe just plain serial) to that VM from a Squeak image on another (local) machine (or even the same one). The VM communications support is at the level of just accepting a few simple commands for loading and storing to memory, and modifying the VM registers. You manipulate the VM of the target system using the full image on the development machine. You can compile methods to bytecodes locally, and then download the bytecodes (with or without source) to the target. If you want, you can compile the compiler and supporting classes and put it on the target. To reach this ideal, I need to: * Modify the VM to support remote control (inserting of new objects, single stepping, reading/writing of memory). This VM might be slower then usual because of an extra "if (debugging)" check in the main byte-code loop, and could be replaced by a non-debugging version when development was done. * Understand how the Squeak image is put together well enough to build one from scratch. This would also include disentangling the Squeak classes into independent packages which built on each other. * Build tools in Squeak for controlling this remote VM. This might entail only minor changes to the existing development tools, so the tools know they are interacting with code and processes for a remote system. * Figure out a way to have this approach remain compatible with the existing Squeak VM architecture and code, so it does not get left behind with new releases. I know I can do small scale development much more simply with the approach of developing under a general Squeak system on another platform and then stripping a big image down. However, ideally I'd like something that feels cleaner and less monolithic, by building up from zero objects in the image. Also, I'd like to be able to modify the target system remotely in any case (if it is headless), although of course I could do this at the Smalltalk (not VM) level, although with less fine control. I have a couple days around now to work on this (mainly figuring out how difficult the task would be), and probably some more time near the end of December. Collaborators are welcome, as long as we all agree to put the collective results back under the Squeak license. -Paul Fernhout Kurtz-Fernhout Software http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com ========================================================= Developers of custom software and educational simulations Creators of the open source Garden with Insight(TM) garden simulator Creators of the PlantStudio(TM) Botanical Illustration Software

1 0

SugarWeb site, now in English!
by vuletich＠ar.ibm.com 25 Nov '98

25 Nov '98

Hello All. As you probably know, SUGAR is Smalltalk User Group ARgentina, the biggest Spanish spoken SUG. We have a Web site with lots of Smalltalk Miniatures and some very interesting details about the various projects we are working on. I've started translated some of the SUGAR Web site to English. It is just a beggining, but it is worth spending some time at it. I will be completing it soon. You can go to http://www.sugarweb.com and click on English Version, or just go to http://www.sugarweb.com/indexe.htm Juan Manuel Vuletich SW Export IGS- IBM Argentina Phone Nbr : 54-1-313-0014 ext. 5207 Tie Line : 840-5207 e-mail: vuletich(a)ar.ibm.com

1 0

MorphicWrappers Propaganda
by Leandro Caniglia 25 Nov '98

25 Nov '98

Hi everybody! All squeakers are invited (one more time, I know) to download and try the MorphicWrapper package. http://www.dm.uba.ar/MathMorphs (search them under the title "MorphicWrappers and Books") (For those of you that allready have the package, consider downloading this new version) MorphicWrappers where first implemented by Luciano <Luciano(a)core-sdi.com> and Richie <gera(a)core-sdi.com> in the times when many people at Sugar were trying to understand Morphic. They did the work as a way to learn Squeak. Now the package has grown into a useful framework. Some other people have contributed to the package too: Daniel Vainsencher <danielv(a)netvision.net.il> Pablo Malavolta <murphy(a)ba.net> Valeria Murgia <valeria(a)sugarWeb.com> Leandro Caniglia <leandro(a)sugarWeb.com> With MorphicWrappers installed in your image, you enjoy some nice properities: - Any object is able to live in a Morphic World. - Any Squeak expression can be written and evaluated on the air. - You send messages dragging and droppoing objects (the arguments) and double clicking the receiver. - You edit Squeak Classes using ClassMorphicWrappers. - You never need a Workspace and almost never open a Browser when programming. For example, with MW installed you don't need FillInTheBlankMorph any more! Instead you use RequestBoxMorph which is polymorphic to the former but has the (exceptional) ability to request *any* object, not just a String! Using MW is real cool. Please, try them and send us your feedback, we will stay here waiting for your comments. Also take into account that all contributions on ideas, bug reports, or code will be wellcome. Many thanks Leandro (for the MW team)

1 0

Re: Changeset Problems
by Leandro Caniglia 24 Nov '98

24 Nov '98

There was an similar problem (fixed by Andres Valloud, I think) when you deleted some class and recreated it later. It was solved in the patch 325ChangeS0. May be something is still missing... incompleteBye ^ Leandro -----Original Message----- From: Gerardo Richarte <gera(a)core-sdi.com> To: Squeak List <squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 3:50 AM Subject: Changeset Problems > While building the package for MorphicWrappers, we found a problem >that we cannot reproduce right now, but I can describe: > > We had two classes, ClassWrapper and BitmappedWrapper, we renamed >them to ClassMorphicWrapper and BitmappedMorphicWrapper, we made fileOut >of the change set, and when we made fileIn from a fresh image, those >renamed classes where missing. I'm not sure if it has something to do >with renaming the classes (I tried to reproduce this behaviour, but I >culdn't). What I do have is a .ZIP (2.5M) file with a .image and a >.changes that will have this problem. > > Problematic Bye! > Richie++ > >

2 1

Re: [sqh] How close is SmallTalk Express to Squeak syntactically?
by Bruce O'Neel 24 Nov '98

24 Nov '98

> and then the GUI chapter seemed wrong. I am, oh so slowly, learning > how to get GUIs to come up. For those of you up to this stage and working with 2.2... I've had some success in using the Scamper openAsMorph class method to help me get started with a morphic sample GUI, and, using Filelist open class method for the MVC GUIs. I need both because Morphic is just a touch slow on my ancient powerbook. cheers bruce == Bruce O'Neel - beoneel(a)acm.org http://homepage.iprolink.ch/~bioneel _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

1 0

← Newer
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
...
27
Older →

Jump to page: