On Saturday, May 22, 2010 09:05:14 am Clinton Blackmore wrote:
While I've programmed for some time, I am new to Squeak. I was wondering how I diff or compare two images that are largely similar (such as, say, Scratch vs Scratch For Second Life).
An image is not a source code but a snapshot of a state. It is a virtual machine suspended in time. It cannot be compared or diff-ed, AFAIK.
Subbu
If you want to compare source code only, you can file it out. You could also write some code in both images, and ask them to do comparisons (use sockets of fifos, or similar mechanisms for IPC).
Yes, I suppose an image is a virtual machine suspended in time. I hadn't even considered comparing things other than the source code.
I'd wondered about filing everything out. That sounds like the way to go. Having the two images talk to each other and run comparisons also sounds very interesting -- but sounds rather difficult (although, perhaps it is not and it is just my lack of understanding of squeak that makes it seem so).
Clinton
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 4:07 AM, Mateusz Grotek unoduetre@poczta.onet.plwrote:
If you want to compare source code only, you can file it out. You could also write some code in both images, and ask them to do comparisons (use sockets of fifos, or similar mechanisms for IPC). _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
People have certainly built tools that do image archeology but they have tended to be more academic than practical.
Outside of Squeak, imagine writing a tool to look at two WMware VMDK files onto which two different people had installed Windows, Firefox, and various other tools. It might be theoretically possible to write a program that would look at two VMDKs and tell you about the different versions of programs that are installed, but it is practically very difficult. It would be much easier to start both machines on the network and have them inventory their programs and then compare.
If you are interested in having two (running) Squeaks talk to one another, you might want to look at Magma. Magma can store just about any Squeak object in an object database that multiple Squeaks can connect.
Magma's remote framework can be used outside of Magma. It is available as "Ma client server" See this page for details and usage:
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2978
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Clinton Blackmore clinton.blackmore@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I suppose an image is a virtual machine suspended in time. I hadn't even considered comparing things other than the source code. I'd wondered about filing everything out. That sounds like the way to go. Having the two images talk to each other and run comparisons also sounds very interesting -- but sounds rather difficult (although, perhaps it is not and it is just my lack of understanding of squeak that makes it seem so). Clinton
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 4:07 AM, Mateusz Grotek unoduetre@poczta.onet.pl wrote:
If you want to compare source code only, you can file it out. You could also write some code in both images, and ask them to do comparisons (use sockets of fifos, or similar mechanisms for IPC). _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
I can install a library and start communicating over sockets with one line of code?! That's incredible.
[Incidentally, as a system administrator, I did ask about diffing two filesystems: http://serverfault.com/questions/10424/diffing-two-filesystems. (grin)]
Clinton
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 7:59 AM, David Mitchell david.mitchell@gmail.comwrote:
People have certainly built tools that do image archeology but they have tended to be more academic than practical.
Outside of Squeak, imagine writing a tool to look at two WMware VMDK files onto which two different people had installed Windows, Firefox, and various other tools. It might be theoretically possible to write a program that would look at two VMDKs and tell you about the different versions of programs that are installed, but it is practically very difficult. It would be much easier to start both machines on the network and have them inventory their programs and then compare.
If you are interested in having two (running) Squeaks talk to one another, you might want to look at Magma. Magma can store just about any Squeak object in an object database that multiple Squeaks can connect.
Magma's remote framework can be used outside of Magma. It is available as "Ma client server" See this page for details and usage:
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2978
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Clinton Blackmore clinton.blackmore@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I suppose an image is a virtual machine suspended in time. I hadn't even considered comparing things other than the source code. I'd wondered about filing everything out. That sounds like the way to
go.
Having the two images talk to each other and run comparisons also sounds very interesting -- but sounds rather difficult (although, perhaps it is
not
and it is just my lack of understanding of squeak that makes it seem so). Clinton
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 4:07 AM, Mateusz Grotek <
unoduetre@poczta.onet.pl>
wrote:
If you want to compare source code only, you can file it out. You could also write some code in both images, and ask them to do comparisons (use sockets of fifos, or similar mechanisms for IPC). _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Sorry for the noise, I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but just because it hasn't been mentioned in this thread I have to suggest it: have you looked at Monticello and Metacello?
Monticello is the similar to a cvs repository merged with aptitude. And it has it's own diffing tools to compare and merge sources.
And Metacello defines dependencies between packages and it's versions.
Cheers,
Mariano.
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Clinton Blackmore < clinton.blackmore@gmail.com> wrote:
I can install a library and start communicating over sockets with one line of code?! That's incredible.
[Incidentally, as a system administrator, I did ask about diffing two filesystems: http://serverfault.com/questions/10424/diffing-two-filesystems . (grin)]
Clinton
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 7:59 AM, David Mitchell david.mitchell@gmail.comwrote:
People have certainly built tools that do image archeology but they have tended to be more academic than practical.
Outside of Squeak, imagine writing a tool to look at two WMware VMDK files onto which two different people had installed Windows, Firefox, and various other tools. It might be theoretically possible to write a program that would look at two VMDKs and tell you about the different versions of programs that are installed, but it is practically very difficult. It would be much easier to start both machines on the network and have them inventory their programs and then compare.
If you are interested in having two (running) Squeaks talk to one another, you might want to look at Magma. Magma can store just about any Squeak object in an object database that multiple Squeaks can connect.
Magma's remote framework can be used outside of Magma. It is available as "Ma client server" See this page for details and usage:
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2978
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Clinton Blackmore clinton.blackmore@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I suppose an image is a virtual machine suspended in time. I
hadn't
even considered comparing things other than the source code. I'd wondered about filing everything out. That sounds like the way to
go.
Having the two images talk to each other and run comparisons also
sounds
very interesting -- but sounds rather difficult (although, perhaps it is
not
and it is just my lack of understanding of squeak that makes it seem
so).
Clinton
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 4:07 AM, Mateusz Grotek <
unoduetre@poczta.onet.pl>
wrote:
If you want to compare source code only, you can file it out. You could also write some code in both images, and ask them to do comparisons
(use
sockets of fifos, or similar mechanisms for IPC). _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
I have heard of Monticello. (I may need to re-read the chapter on it in Squeak By Example). I've used other version control systems, and understand how to use them, but I don't know of any that let you diff source trees that aren't in the same version control system, so I have no reason to expect that Monticello would do that, either.
Still, I suppose I could try to leverage off of the diffing tools and change the way that it gets its input data. My biggest hang-up is that I am, well, a beginner with Squeak.
Thank you, Clinton
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Mariano Abel Coca < marianoabelcoca@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry for the noise, I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but just because it hasn't been mentioned in this thread I have to suggest it: have you looked at Monticello and Metacello?
Monticello is the similar to a cvs repository merged with aptitude. And it has it's own diffing tools to compare and merge sources.
And Metacello defines dependencies between packages and it's versions.
Cheers,
Mariano.
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Clinton Blackmore < clinton.blackmore@gmail.com> wrote:
I can install a library and start communicating over sockets with one line of code?! That's incredible.
[Incidentally, as a system administrator, I did ask about diffing two filesystems: http://serverfault.com/questions/10424/diffing-two-filesystems . (grin)]
Clinton
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 7:59 AM, David Mitchell <david.mitchell@gmail.com
wrote:
People have certainly built tools that do image archeology but they have tended to be more academic than practical.
Outside of Squeak, imagine writing a tool to look at two WMware VMDK files onto which two different people had installed Windows, Firefox, and various other tools. It might be theoretically possible to write a program that would look at two VMDKs and tell you about the different versions of programs that are installed, but it is practically very difficult. It would be much easier to start both machines on the network and have them inventory their programs and then compare.
If you are interested in having two (running) Squeaks talk to one another, you might want to look at Magma. Magma can store just about any Squeak object in an object database that multiple Squeaks can connect.
Magma's remote framework can be used outside of Magma. It is available as "Ma client server" See this page for details and usage:
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2978
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Clinton Blackmore clinton.blackmore@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I suppose an image is a virtual machine suspended in time. I
hadn't
even considered comparing things other than the source code. I'd wondered about filing everything out. That sounds like the way to
go.
Having the two images talk to each other and run comparisons also
sounds
very interesting -- but sounds rather difficult (although, perhaps it
is not
and it is just my lack of understanding of squeak that makes it seem
so).
Clinton
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 4:07 AM, Mateusz Grotek <
unoduetre@poczta.onet.pl>
wrote:
If you want to compare source code only, you can file it out. You
could
also write some code in both images, and ask them to do comparisons
(use
sockets of fifos, or similar mechanisms for IPC). _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Basically with monticello you can set up a unique repository and then commit there the baseline and changes from both images. Once there you can merge differences easily.
Cheers,
Mariano.
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Clinton Blackmore < clinton.blackmore@gmail.com> wrote:
I have heard of Monticello. (I may need to re-read the chapter on it in Squeak By Example). I've used other version control systems, and understand how to use them, but I don't know of any that let you diff source trees that aren't in the same version control system, so I have no reason to expect that Monticello would do that, either.
Still, I suppose I could try to leverage off of the diffing tools and change the way that it gets its input data. My biggest hang-up is that I am, well, a beginner with Squeak.
Thank you, Clinton
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Mariano Abel Coca < marianoabelcoca@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry for the noise, I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but just because it hasn't been mentioned in this thread I have to suggest it: have you looked at Monticello and Metacello?
Monticello is the similar to a cvs repository merged with aptitude. And it has it's own diffing tools to compare and merge sources.
And Metacello defines dependencies between packages and it's versions.
Cheers,
Mariano.
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Clinton Blackmore < clinton.blackmore@gmail.com> wrote:
I can install a library and start communicating over sockets with one line of code?! That's incredible.
[Incidentally, as a system administrator, I did ask about diffing two filesystems: http://serverfault.com/questions/10424/diffing-two-filesystems . (grin)]
Clinton
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 7:59 AM, David Mitchell < david.mitchell@gmail.com> wrote:
People have certainly built tools that do image archeology but they have tended to be more academic than practical.
Outside of Squeak, imagine writing a tool to look at two WMware VMDK files onto which two different people had installed Windows, Firefox, and various other tools. It might be theoretically possible to write a program that would look at two VMDKs and tell you about the different versions of programs that are installed, but it is practically very difficult. It would be much easier to start both machines on the network and have them inventory their programs and then compare.
If you are interested in having two (running) Squeaks talk to one another, you might want to look at Magma. Magma can store just about any Squeak object in an object database that multiple Squeaks can connect.
Magma's remote framework can be used outside of Magma. It is available as "Ma client server" See this page for details and usage:
http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/2978
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Clinton Blackmore clinton.blackmore@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, I suppose an image is a virtual machine suspended in time. I
hadn't
even considered comparing things other than the source code. I'd wondered about filing everything out. That sounds like the way to
go.
Having the two images talk to each other and run comparisons also
sounds
very interesting -- but sounds rather difficult (although, perhaps it
is not
and it is just my lack of understanding of squeak that makes it seem
so).
Clinton
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 4:07 AM, Mateusz Grotek <
unoduetre@poczta.onet.pl>
wrote:
If you want to compare source code only, you can file it out. You
could
also write some code in both images, and ask them to do comparisons
(use
sockets of fifos, or similar mechanisms for IPC). _______________________________________________ Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
On 27.05.2010, at 16:34, Clinton Blackmore wrote:
I have heard of Monticello. (I may need to re-read the chapter on it in Squeak By Example). I've used other version control systems, and understand how to use them, but I don't know of any that let you diff source trees that aren't in the same version control system, so I have no reason to expect that Monticello would do that, either.
You could make a single Monticello package with all code in an image, save that, and compare it to the same package in another image. E.g., install the attached file and save the "All" package, you get an MCZ of about 10 MB.
Also, having that allows fun queries: (PackageInfo named: 'All') linesOfCode
- Bert -
Thank you! I'll have to give that a try.
Clinton
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Bert Freudenberg bert@freudenbergs.dewrote:
On 27.05.2010, at 16:34, Clinton Blackmore wrote:
I have heard of Monticello. (I may need to re-read the chapter on it in Squeak By Example). I've used other version control systems, and understand how to use them, but I don't know of any that let you diff source trees that aren't in the same version control system, so I have no reason to expect that Monticello would do that, either.
You could make a single Monticello package with all code in an image, save that, and compare it to the same package in another image. E.g., install the attached file and save the "All" package, you get an MCZ of about 10 MB.
Also, having that allows fun queries: (PackageInfo named: 'All') linesOfCode
- Bert -
Beginners mailing list Beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners
beginners@lists.squeakfoundation.org
-
Bert Freudenberg -
Clinton Blackmore -
David Mitchell -
K. K. Subramaniam -
Mariano Abel Coca -
Mateusz Grotek