[squeak-dev] Re: SqueakMap soon working in 4.0/4.1!

Chris Muller asqueaker at gmail.com
Fri Apr 9 15:59:05 UTC 2010

Chris, yes, you've made me mad.  Since you've completely missed the
point of SqueakMap, won't you please stop pissing all over it and
refrain from "tough-guy" comments about abusing animals (which are
just plain offensive)?

SqueakMap is a piece of *gold* that has been sitting in front of us,
mis-understood and under-appreciated, for years.  The first thing to
understand about SqueakMap is that it is not a tool for merely
"loading code".  If "loading code" is all you want to do, then just go
back to SqueakSource and leave SM alone.

No, SqueakMap is a *presentation tool* that, unlike SqueakSource,
allows an author to deliver a "presentation of software".  A
presentation that is made up of a combination of code AND objects.

If there is anything out there for Squeak that stands ready to "help
newbies", it is SqueakMap.  It should or at least could be used to
load packages that present themselves in a educational or
tutorial-like fashion.  Who needs an on-line "book" about Seaside when
a new user could have an interactive media experience presenting a
*working* Seaside right in front of them, as a live presentation in a
Squeak image.   A "Seaside Tutorial" package loaded from SqueakMap
with one-click.  It wouldn't matter if it wasn't the absolute latest
version of Seaside, because the newbie is just there to learn the core
concepts.  The end of the tutorial, could tell them where to get the
real "latest" Seaside.

It supports SAR installation, so the authors have _unlimited_
flexibility to go out and load other packages from SqueakSource,
SqueakMap, Universes, whatever they want, all with one-click.  It
couldn't get any easier for a newbie, and there's no need for a
dependencies "framework" here because SM does not need to be a SCM
tool.  We already have one, it's called Monticello.

I also find it ridiculous to blame (SM) for packages "not working".
SqueakMap does it's job, which is to store and retrieve the packages
(presentations!) that human users put there.  It's classic GIGO, quit
blaming the tool..

 - Chris

On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 6:25 AM, Chris Cunnington
<smalltalktelevision at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can see from the tone I've used that I've got people's backs up. One the
> one hand I have no desire to create personal animosity. On the other hand
> I'm glad some people are frothing mad, because this is in my mind a serious
> problem. We are creating a new image and we're bringing an outdated design
> attitude with us. We've been ruthless in cutting out some things and some
> perspectives, but not here it seems.
> "SqueakMap is a catalog, not a repository. And let's see - either it is
> something you do not understand *or* I am actively with malicious intent
> trying to make it harder for beginners.... hmmm, which one can it be..."
> Yea, you're right I don't make this distinction, but that doesn't matter. If
> I open up one menu I see three code getting options. For all intents and
> purposes they are the same however they work.
> "Deciding if the SqueakMap Package Loader should be *removed* from the
> image is another thing - and that is not up to me."
> This makes me totally insane. You're saying you're not responsible. Clearly
> nobody is. This is one of the banes of open source projects: stuff is just
> going to carry on into the future by inertia.
> "No, I am not fixing it in order to feed a problem. I have no malicious
> intent."
> I know that. I know your personality and nothing is going to convince me you
> have any malicious intent. Due to the tone I've been using this is the kind
> of escalation that is a peril. Let's not go there.
> "Now Lex is not AFAIK active anymore so
> perhaps that path could easily be taken by the rest of us."
> OK, how about this. How about we kill Universes and SqueakMap lives another
> day.
> Or, we can have all three, but not on the same menu. How about we prioritize
> places to get code. SS and SM and UB are in the same image, but not the same
> menu. Experts will know where to find what they are looking for.
> Chris

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